Border Wall

It’s my understanding that 2022 and this year there will be around 3 million “encounters” each year, which does not include people who get in who don’t get caught. So do you think we can effectively assimilate 3 million a year?

 

It's not just what was happening in 1879. It's the millions of guest worker who came legally under the Bracero Program between WWII and 1963. It's the 1 million undocumented who became citizens in 1986 ( about half who were eligible). And it's about the approximately 8 million undocumented immigrants currently in our workforce. Notice a pattern?

Not only has our border never been secure, for the last few generations, we've had a demand for immigrant labor. At one point, we had a very successful guest worker program. Racism ended it. Since then, the flow of undocumented workers have been coming, and everything we've tried to slow them down, let alone stop them, has failed.

We should learn from the past and do what worked, and avoid what doesn't. The Bracero Program worked. Draconian laws not only don't work, they wreak economic havoc.

 

Assuming your numbers are accurate, three million encounters =/= three million distinct people.

Nor does every person who comes seek asylum. And of that group, some of them won't pass the credible fear interview.

 

you claim our borders have never been secure, then conclude that we should learn from the past and stay the course. So to summarize your position you just want open borders.

 

Our borders have never been secure. May never be as long as there is a demand for immigrant labor and an ample supply in countries to our south. Our best plan in our history? The Bracero Program. We should copy it. What hasn't worked? Boondoggle walls and draconian laws. We should leave those in the dustbins of history.

 

Perhaps an unpopular outside opinion.

I don't see any issue with protecting your borders from non-legal immigration. If it's a wall, so be it.

 

ask China if walls work. Ask Berlin if walls work. We have never had a wall, so your comment about it not working is asinine. We’ve had a partial wall. Look at it this way, if you built a house and only put up two walls, do you expect to be able to keep people and creatures out? The answer is no. What our immigration system is lacking right now is enforcement. We already have laws that prohibit people from just walking in, and we need to enforce those laws. And those laws need to be tougher. If you walk into my house without permission, you are never invited back into my house. It is a simple as that. Since everybody wants to come to my house, you’re not going to risk it. And if you do, you don’t deserve to come back.

 

'Shame on you!': Eric Adams is heckled as he tours Colombian port town Eric Adams is heckled in Colombia on 'vanity tour' of South and Central America to deter illegal migrants | Daily Mail Online
Meanwhile....

 

When we ask the Chinese, should we ask the Ming Dynasty representatives, who built much of the wall, or the Qing dynasty, who marched through it from Manchuria to take over? When we ask the representatives of Berlin, should we ask the people that literally tore down the wall or the ones that were around before then?

 

You can ask any Chinese…because they all know their history and the importance of the Wall. Or you can ask any American who read a history book for a much more watered down version of the wall’s importance, which, given your question may be more appropriate for your intellect.

As for the Berlin Wall, you can actually watch videos of the wall’s function on YouTube. But to really get a feel for its effectiveness ask an old east Berliner. There are still plenty of those alive. However, I suggest you ask an 8 year old German Child to get the information from their grandparents first, then explain it to you, since…..well….you know.

 

I'm just wondering if I should ask the people that are descendants of the multiple Han dynasties who built the wall or the multiple dynasties of people who invaded from the North and took over. Are both of them "Chinese," because the wall builders certainly didn't think so?

Bold move questioning intellect when you have no clue about the history of the Great Wall apparently. The history was that it was built over centuries and breached often. It has been more important to China as a tourist attraction than it ever was as a defensive measure, as it failed in the latter purpose quite often. But I'm guessing you didn't know that, did you?

So what you are saying is don't ask these folks?



BTW, fun fact about the Berlin Wall, it has now been torn down for longer than it was functional.

But I do find it fascinating that you want to be more like East Germany.

 

Berlin Wall was very effective. They tore down the wall after they announced that the border was open.

 

Not really true. A crowd overwhelmed the checkpoints, then the government announced that they wouldn't use deadly force any longer to guard the border. The night when this happened is generally recognized as when the wall came down (November 9).

 

The reason there were so many people at the checkpoints is because it was announced that the borders were now open. Are you really arguing that the border was just as easy to cross when there was a wall and when there wasn’t?

 

Not true actually. The government mistakenly announced that international travel would be allowed (not that the border was open) and the crowds overwhelmed the checkpoints. Regardless, from a strategic standpoint, a police state managed to keep its citizens in with a wall for a few decades before those citizens overwhelmed that police state and caused its downfall. Is that the sort of strategic success we are looking for here?

 

It was still in the order that I initially stated, even though you falsely claimed that it wasn’t.

The difference is we would still allow immigration and travel. A wall at our border would simply reduce illegal crossings. Yes, there would still be some.

 

Texas: we need border security
Federal Govt: ok
Texas: we don’t want big govt
Fed Govt: ok
Texas: you don’t do anything. We want to secede
Fed Govt: ok. Good luck. You’ll have to tax the crap out of your citizens for national defense.
Texas: wait, wut?

 

Here's a good article about the efficacy, or lack thereof of the Great Wall of China. Basically, the Wall was easy to breach and was only as effective as the people manning it. Our wall would be nearly 2000 miles long, and manning it would be quite expensive.

In contrast, the Berlin wall was 92 miles long. And it was breached often and early until it was finished then fortified.

The Isreali wall in about 400 miles long, and breached by thousands of Palestinians daily who come to work. Palestinians who probably won't be happy with recent events because the Israelis will likely step up border patrols. Proving again, a wall is only as effective as the people manning it.

One major difference between the Great Wall and a US border wall is we're not protecting ourselves from military invaders who want to conquer us. Literally millions have come in through the decades, and nobody has tried to conquer the US. It's not a worry.

Even with technology, "manning" a 2000 wall will be cost prohibitive. A lot of the border areas are difficult to get to, and are in extreme climate areas. Moving people back and forth, and maintaining tech in these areas won't be easy or cheap. And the people in the other side wishing to enter? I would bet they would quickly find weaknesses and exploit them.

Again, we can follow historically bad policies and repeat the same mistakes, throwing good money after bad. Or, we can do what two bipartisan committees suggested and start with an expanded guest worker program. A program we I've had (Bracero) that was very effective.

 

There are literally thousands of written resources, not including the hundreds of documentaries on the Great Wall.

You seem to be suggesting that the wall was not built to keep people out, or that it was not successful. Both assertions are wrong. Has the wall been breached? Yep. Is it perfect? Nope. Your post is beyond ridiculous.

The Great Wall of China