Birthright Citizenship

Once you eliminate birthright citizenship as a constitutional right, you eliminate it for everyone. Not a single thing you wrote is addressed in the constitution. None of the exceptions are written there. The only carve out in the 14th Amendment is if the person born here is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. There are limited people who are not. Essentially, the children of diplomats with immunity. There is Supreme Court precedent outside of the context of slavery and a long history of understanding what the 14th Amendment says.

 

Where is that exception in the constitution?

 

easier to deport or lock up critics if they aren't even considered citizens. Back to that false dichotomy that posits that your are either a Trump loving "real" American or a radical commie who hates America. Slippery slope with the can of worms being proposed here.

 

Oh goody. So we can now arbitrarily "fix" the Constitution by executive say-so. Just what the founders had in mind.

In that case, just wait til a future President takes a hatchet to, say, your precious 2nd Amendment. No harm no foul, right?

 

So the President can undo a Constitutional Amendment with a defining SCOTUS case by Executive Order. All hail Emperor Trump!

 

Baltimore

 

I was honestly looking forward to reading the liberal stance on birthright citizenship in this thread. I am definitely a conservative but atleast like to learn the views of the other side so I can understand it better.

I honestly have no idea why we are allowing this to continue. We need to lock the border and decrease the amount of people coming in here illegally. More people drive up housing costs and decrease wages. We need to get a handle on this. And yes, this would not be retroactive. If you're born here you are a citizen but going forward this needs to end.

Someone mentioned something about not being able to find a doctor? How many anchor babies do you know became doctors?
After 5 pages, I really have seen no reasonable argument to allow this to continue. Now I am not for it coming through an executive order but that is a different topic.

The whole "leftist" position on this reminds me entirely of their stance against voter ID laws. There is no reasonable explanation except to attempt to gain more votes for their side.

 

What I find irrational about the leftist’s position on illegal immigration is its impact on wages. On one hand they claim illegal immigration provides low wage workers ….. all the while arguing that many Americans cannot afford life’s necessities because wages are too low.

Considering that Mexicans and central/South American Hispanics comprise the greatest % of illegals, the leftist’s position can rightfully be considered as “racist”. They want cheap Hispanic labor so the cost of products and services provided thereby are relatively cheaper for a mostly “white” America.

 

https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering...tecting-30000-health-care-workers-deportation


According to this article on DACA, 30,000 *actually working in healthcare* that Trump would want to deport (~200 doctors), and these people aren’t even legal, these are technically undocumented illegals brought in as young children (so called “dreamers”).



I can’t find any numbers on so- called “anchor babies”, but as these people wouldn’t have the same legal burdens as DACA recipients and are legal citizens, I would assume much larger figures than that 30,000. Like, a whole generation of people in FL could be deemed “anchor babies”. It’s a completely stupid term.

I’m sure there are people who cross the border specifically to give birth, or immigrants who give birth on vacation. Bruce Lee for example was one of those “anchor babies”. But in general I don’t think term is used properly. If two illegals are living here and birth a child, that’s just them living their life, it isn’t necessarily an “anchor baby” in the same way a woman who is already pregnant specifically goes out of her way to give birth in the U.S. I’m sure this happens too, just not sure it’s something we ought to be overly worried about.

 

First of all it says 30,000 working or training to work in....big difference

Secondly what happens if we didn't have those 30,000? Do you think those positions would go unfilled? Do you think those medical school seats would go unfilled?

I think wages would increase.

 

Reverse racism card so it’s not the “deport ‘em all” and “lock up families” people that are the racists, it’s the people who would welcome them. Interesting coping mechanism I guess, assuming you even believe it.

 

Well here’s another claiming 34,000 work in healthcare.

So not sure that is a good distinction to get stuck on. Yes, many positions in healthcare go unfulfilled. The 200 medical school seats maybe get filled, but those other jobs are harder to fill (and sorry but I don’t want to cast aside 200 medical students regardless, if they were good enough to be admitted based on merit).

https://www.presidentsalliance.org/...2/11/2022-11-07-DACA-Stats-for-Info-Sheet.pdf

Our economy is presently labor constrained, and a recent problem was rising labor costs and inflation. You get that wages flows through to inflation, right? Have we seriously pivoted straight from “inflation is out of control” to a “they’re keeping our wages down”??? I guess that sort of thing can happen in alt reality bubbles.

 

Most undocumented work jobs that citizens do not want. Who grows up dreaming they want to be a migrant farm worker or turn down beds at a motel? And when is the last time citizens held a good portion of these jobs?

These are minimum wage jobs that without immigrants working them and others, labor supply would drop causing prices to go up. Yes, wages would go up too, but citizens at least with a high school graduation can already get jobs that pay more than minimum.

Assuming they keep their job after all immigrants left. Immigrants also create demand. Less fruits and veggies being picked means less loads for truckers to deliver and less shelves to be stocked. Also means less customers in local, rural towns because there are less workers in the field, which hurts local shops and restaurants.

As for birthright citizenship, we don't track them any different. They are citizens. And their labor is needed too. We currently have more own jobs than unemployed, with an aging population.

 

Pretty sure this is the same argument used to justify slavery in the 1800s. Without the slaves, sorry "immigrants" in this case, how else would industries with artificially low costs get affordable labor? Once again the democratic party supports using what nearly amounts to slave labor as long as their veggies are cheap.

Doing the right thing, like enforcing laws and paying people a "living wage", aren't always the easy things. Sometimes they have associated costs. If you want cheap produce plant a garden.

And on topic for the thread - birthright citizenship should probably be ended. Immigration and US citizenship should be earned and not easily. Not to be a jerk but there's 350 million of us, it's not the days of manifest destiny and all that.

 

A lot of problems with your simplistic analysis. First, you push wages up, that encourages more offshoring, causing wages to go back down. Second, whatever increases in wages happen, you likely see an increase in prices. Third, shortages cause less production of products that can't be offshored, such as housing, pushing prices up. Fourth, fewer people lower the long-term probability of innovation and large-scale wealth creation.

Heck, what you are asking for is the economy coming out of COVID as a permanent economy. We had a huge shortage of workers, pushing wages up, especially at the lower income levels. That caused a huge increase in prices and shortages in many industries.

BTW, that system is not really sustainable for the reason we saw: government can't stop people from trying to fill jobs during labor shortages, in the same way that government can't stop consumption of products that they don't like (e.g., illicit drugs). People find a way to supply those who demand a product.

 

Immigrants aren't slaves. They are paid a negotiated rate. They have the right to leave jobs. They have the right to negotiate pay. It is pretty gross that you are equating voluntary economic activity to slavery.

So you want the government to enforce "living wages?" Can you tell me how much that is? I suspect that you would reject that notion in any other context (e.g., minimum wages).

The reason that the US has 350 million people living in the world's strongest economy is because of immigrants becoming citizens, having children, educating those children, and watching them produce more and more innovations and productivity. Cut that off and the entire engine of the US economy's growth dries up over the long-term.

 

This is always going to be a dumb argument. Slaves were brought against their will, kidnapped, and forced to work. Immigrants are desperate to come of the their own free will and work for wages.

There are definitely cases of human trafficking and immigrants being conned or suffering deplorable conditions. That happens precisely because we’ve created such a huge black market for labor. Not too different from the violence from alcohol prohibition or the “war on drugs”. All are cases of the govt interfering in the free market. The black markets and associated crime are the free market filling that economic gap. Yes, it is as simple as that. Anyone that has a serious interest in their human rights or living conditions would want a far more robust guest worker system to crush the black market for labor.

Instead we get these frankly really fulldopy “dEmOcRaTs aRe ThE tRuE pArTy of sLaVeRy” type arguments.

 

Slaves are a permanent underclass. Their kids are slaves too, and the system can be self sustaining. Immigrants aren't slaves, and their kids are not only free, we educate them. And because of that education, they rarely, if ever, replace their parents doing the same job.

Instead, they get better jobs, which is why we need to continue to bring in new immigrants for those who retire or have enough and decide to return home.

Regardless, we need this labor to do important work. And our own citizens are unlikely to fill these jobs. Most have the same, of not better educations as the immigrant children, and can also find better jobs. And do just that.

What we need is protections for these immigrant workers. Make them legal through a guest worker program that ensures none are paid under the table and all are making at least minimum wage. It also gives workers the ability to wage complaints without fear of being deported.

 

Unsurprising for people who can read the Constitution.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/23/politics/birthright-citizenship-lawsuit-hearing-seattle/index.html