At least 16 people dead and suspect at large after multiple incidents in area of Lewiston, Maine

That Bowling Alley was a 'gun free zone'. Gun laws only work for the crooks. Tracking down existing gun owners and all their guns is a pipe dream.

 

I mean, it would be better if only a few died. I bet there are 13-14 families out there right now that would have preferred that.

 

No doubt. Can you give me the number where it’s in? Where it’s not so bad?
He might have killed few innocent people…
Doesn’t sound like a great argument to me.
Again would a shotgun have been much better? Two or three handguns? If we are going vilify the AR because it can kill more.. how many is too many.. or do we want to just go ahead and admit the real goal and purpose is no guns at all.
I’d prefer to focus on the people that commit these crimes. The mentally ill, the emotionally disturbed, the monsters in the world. And far far too many time now we had forewarning
We knew what the person was capable of and what they wanted to do. We need to start focusing on how to keep them from doing damage to others.

 

I mean, yes killing less people is better than more people. But given that you haven't exactly proposed what to do about mental health, just said the word over and over again, it seems like limiting the amount of people that mentally ill people can kill is a nice step until you come up with how we stop people from being mentally ill in ways that make them want to kill people.

BTW, I explicitly said I don't want to ban guns in this very thread. I want tracking and consistent mental health screenings for gun ownership. But, short of a willingness of gun owners to inconvenience themselves, killing less people seems like it might be the best we can do.

 

Have you read my posts in just this thread? Just this one thread? I have suggested red flags laws. I’m nuaveughested finding ways to keep guns out of mentally incompetent people’s hands.. I don’t have an end all be all plan to stop mass murders .. do you? And again please just be honest and admit you are all in for all guns to be banned.. that or let us know how man dead people are acceptable and how many are not. Because you can be art 15 and mass murder will happen with shotguns.. then pistols and so on until all guns are banned. So which is it.
In the mean time instead of focusing on the tool used how about we focus on the monsters using the tool.

 

Yes, you say those words a lot too. The devil is in the details. We already have red flag laws in many places. They don't capture the majority of mentally ill people because mental health is assumed unless something specifically proves otherwise, and, even then, we are so reticent to enforce them at the risk of inconveniencing a gun owner that they don't work.

Nope, which is why I'd prefer less people dying to more people dying. Would you?

Because that would be a lie. I notice you didn't at all address my comments and just moved on like I didn't say them.

2.7492 dead people is acceptable. No more.

But seriously, you are trying to turn the lack of a perfect solution against the notion of making the situation better. And I suspect you are doing it because actually trying to improve the situation might inconvenience you. And that is a step too far.

And if they kill less than they would kill with the AR 15, that is a good thing. And, for some reason, these people keep choosing that gun. Perhaps because it is better at this task than a shotgun.

Well, calling the mentally ill "monsters" will certainly solve the problem. Let me know when you have more than that.

 

But that is just not true. Why does maga literally love ar15s? Not rhetorical.

 

Maga on assault weapons…..

 

What is just not true? That mental
Illness played a major role? That my guns have been good little boys and girls and have t committed any murders? That I have agreed we need better Ed flag la s and ways to keep guns out of the hands of mentally disturbed?
what part wasn’t true in my post? As for bobert or whatever her name is.. she’s a whacko. So what. Congrats. She loves her Ars and Beato is coming from them he’ll yes. She has absolutely zero to do with what I posted.

 

I think you mean gun laws only work for law abiding folk?

 

Anyone killing innocent children is a mister. Anyone entering a school, a church or a business and unloading guns on innocent civilians is a monster . How you can suggest otherwise is beyond me.
Red flag laws have done a lot of hood here in Florida. They have made a huge difference. They can be strengthened and improved upon.
Your solution is to ban AR 15 to make the situation more tolerable.. yet you criticize my solution of better red flag laws and better mental screening .. which have already been proven to STOP gun violence before it starts… not just curb the body count to a more palatable number.
If the devil is in the details please share the details of your grand plan…

 

I didn't suggest anything. You maybe inferred it, but calling them a monster may make you feel better, but it is a useless action.

Have they? How do you figure that? A murder rate dropping faster than in other locales? Fewer mass shootings? What is the metric by which we determine the success of these laws?

What is a "better mental screening?" Would every gun owner need to get one of those? And then periodically need to get one?

 

Is Maga-ar15 “collectors” really the victims in this issue?

 

Put it like this, red flag laws are not likely to be all that effective in curbing gun violence in any substantial way because a great deal of that gun violence occurs by people who aren't flagged because they don't have mental illness that would trigger such laws or they evaded triggering for whatever reason. Plus, there are large numbers of Americans with some form of mental illness that will never kill anyone.But guns are involved in every gun crime (obviously) and a cultural obsession around gun ownership, and a social structure & culture that exacerbates violence.

 

It's not about your guns.

 

Maga….

 

Ummm yeah. That’s what distinguishes between a shooting and a mass shooting. The more people that are killed, the more families that are torn apart and the more effective the terrorism is on the American population.

 

We have seen the red flag laws work and be effective here in Florida. They have helped stop many would be shooters, violent actors.

 

Depends on what we mean by effective. Don't get me wrong, even if it's only a small effect, I'm for robust red flag laws, but I don't see them curbing gun violence in any extremely significant way. Guns are involved in upwards of 80% of all homicides and >50% of all suicides with roughly 5 of every 6 gun homicides involving illegal guns, ntm their involvement in aggravated assaults and robberies. Point being, widespread availability of guns faiap guarantees that red flag laws will be more @ marginally effective, mainly because gun laws permit widespread ownership in the first place and the easy availability of illegal weapons in the second. But like I said, I am all for red flag laws. Worth it if they save even one life.

 

How many of those homicides are done with 9mm and are inner city conflicts? And yet… it is the AR15 that is what most want banned. That’s why I ask us to be honest. Once we start banning guns based on their use in murders.. we will never stop. If a mass shooting with ar15 kills 18 and we ban AR15s.. the next mass shooting with a shotgun will kill 12. Are we saying oh that’s ok? Of course not.. we will immediately start clamoring to ban shotguns. And the. Pistols will be used and 8 will die. Will we say oh… that’s less than half? No of course not..
And yes most murders are done with illegally owned guns.. and yet so many want to punish the millions and millions of legal responsible gun owners.
Static’s show that on a low end firearms help prevent violence 75,000-100000 times a year. Are we going to remove that protection from single moms, divorced battered women, young women, and all the others that have used a gun to protect themselves and theirs?
Red flags law have worked. They aren’t necessarily designed to stop suicides though they have. They are mainly put in place to help stop mass shootings. And they have worked. So far the argument for banning the AR15 is not that it will end mass shootings (logically can’t happen unless we ban and confiscate all firearms) just make them less bad. Well.. Red flag laws have actually STOPPED mass shootings from happening.
Let’s strengthen and improve what is actually working and extend the idea to help handle the mentally ill.