Apparent coup in Brazil in progress

Well that’s about the least surprising thing ever.

 

Wait. Is it a “coup” or an “attempt to suppress the vote?” Those are not the same things. The failure to make a distinction suggests this tweet is hyperbole. We will see.

 

Monkeys see, monkeys do.

 

No, it isn’t. Words mean things. Is the military (or a paramilitary organization, such as the SS, IRGC et al) attempting to seize power from the sitting civil authorities or not? If the answer is no, then it isn’t a coup. That word gets thrown around here a lot to describe virtually every situation: voter fraud, voter suppression, disinformation campaigns, rebellions, revolutions, riots, etc. These are all bad things in their own way, but a coup is something specific. So far whatever is happening in Brazil, bad though it might be, is not a coup.

 

It’s a coup in that if the incumbent remains in power there won’t be even a semblance of Democracy in Brazil for the foreseeable future. Coming to America in 2024.

 

Assuming that’s true, I agree that’s undemocratic. But just saying a thing doesn’t make it so. Call it election interference if you like, but it’s not a coup.

 

It’s effectively the same thing for people who expect democracy. Semantics.

 

Yeah but 'suppressing the vote' doesn't sound as bad a 'coup', even though they achieve the same thing. I'm not saying it's actually happening right now in Brazil because I don't know the details, but using the police and elements of the army to change the outcome of an election sounds like a coup to me

 

This is arguing semantics here. But the definition of a coup is as follows.

: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics and especially the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group :

While I get your point that in Brazil it’s being done by the existing govt rather then an overthrow of govt from outside, focus in on the second part of that definition. Brazil is a democracy, if the existing govt use the military to stay in power, it’s no longer a democracy that has the people elect its President. That is a coup by the police state, even if done by the guy in power it’s a “change” in form of government , similar to how Trump tried to toss out our votes and many refer to that as an attempted coup. Let’s put it this way, if these guys get away with it it’s the LAST legitimate election those countries will have. Votes may still take place, hell people “vote” even in Russia, but functionally these votes mean nothing in authoritarian states without rule of law.

 

As far as I know, the fear of coup was predicated on the Trump-like Bolsonaro not conceding the election to the anti-American Lula.

 

Google says Lula is up ~2 million votes with 99% reporting... but like @tampagtr said ... let's see if it counts.

 

they are attempting to use their authority to control the outcome of the vote so that their chosen candidate is put in charge. does that qualify?

 

Not in my opinion. If the tweet is accurate, they are committing election interference and undermining democracy. The truth of that should be good enough, not requiring loaded language like “coup.”

 

Not surprising. If authoritarian pieces of garbage in our country are willing to try it, you better bet they're willing to try it in a weaker democracy like Brazil.

 

Self coups are a thing as well, which includes situations where an originally legitimate leader makes himself effectively unremovable.

But I agree the actions described in the Twitter thread isn’t at that level. It appears he’s putting his thumb in the scale and undermining the integrity of the election, but he can presumably still lose.