7th Circuit - Assault Rifles Not Protected by the 2nd

As I said, minimal difference. Hell, the members of our armed forces generally use the semi-auto option unless they have a specific reason for using automatic or three-round burst.

To address your analogy, a lot of cars these days can be driven both as manuals or as automatics. I doubt you'd argue that a Chevy Camaro that can be shifted both manually and automatically is a totally different car from a Chevy Camaro of the same year that has only an automatic option. It's a minimal difference.

 

Good point. A manual transmission car driven into a crowd can kill just as many people as an automatic transmission car. Minimal difference.

 

I'm not belittling your legitimate question at all because it's valid. But I think it's fair to note that when there are mass shootings and calls for "assault weapons" bans, it's often noted in response that bad guys can use cars, baseball bats, kitchen knives, and lots of other items as deadly weapons. To the extent that reasoning makes sense, I suppose one could argue that citizens have all sorts of lethal tools at their disposal with or without having "assault weapons." Ultimately, I think a lot of this debate comes down to trying to draw lines based upon the lethality and efficiency of specific weapons/arms, and I don't think either side really believes that all instruments that can be used to kill are equal.

 

I understand your point… but also realize far far more mass shootings are done with 9mm. More people are killed each year with shotguns. The cry for the AR is not rooted in logic but in emotion. Answer honestly
Do you think if we ban AR15 it will stop mass shootings?
If you say no… do you think anyone will be ok with mass shootings as long as it’s not with an AR? Of course not..
So then the argument becomes we need to ban the next weapon su hour.. shot guns or 9mm…. And the cycle will start over and over and over until all guns are banned.
And honestly, until we start teaching people to value life .. their own and others .. the. This will not stop.. it’s not a gun issue it’s a people issue.

 

Is that the only acceptable outcome (stopping mass shootings entirely)? If it lowers the number of mass shootings, is that progress? If it results in less people being killed in mass shootings, is that progress?

 

Will that be accepted? Again far more mass shootings are done with 9mm. More people are killed by 9mm. More are likely killed by shotguns. If the aim is to lower the number killed why focus on the AR? Because it’s easy to get emotions fired up. If the aim is to eventually get to we’re we ban all guns.. start the slow march with the AR and then work your way up the ladder.

 

This is a nonsense argument. We can also take steps to mitigate handgun deaths. Of course, Republicans are actively making things worse by repealing concealed carry regulations. If you accept that less mass shootings or less deaths is progress, I'd say that's a great reason to ban "assault weapons."

Of course, folks like yourself see any attempts to prevent gun deaths as a "slow march" towards banning "all guns."

 

Bullcrap. I have advocates for several things I think will prevent some gun deaths. I’m advocate red flag laws.. which Florida has proven work.. they prevent/limit gun deaths.. just what you want. All with out limiting anyone’s 2A. I have advocated for tiered licensing for guns with mental competency testing for any and all who check certain boxes/ I advocate for strong laws and punishment for parents who supply weapons used in mass shootings.. knowingly or unknowingly. I advocated for anyone caught with any unregistered or illegal weapon serving a minimum of five years no parole. All things that will help limit gun deaths from gangs to mass shooters.
What I don’t advocate for is using emotion to stir the pot just to say you did something. Politicians want the easy way out. They don’t want to get their hands dirty and do the hard work. So anger everyone about the AR and then say look they won’t let us ban them.. it’s the bad eighties. When in fact there are a number of things they could and can do that they just ignore.

 

You just put a whole shitload of people in prison for 5 years seeing as how there's no national firearm registration. The only time there is even a record of a sale or purchase is when the transaction goes through a licensed gun dealer.

 

Fair enough. I will retract the last line about you opposing any measures to prevent gun deaths, and I apologize for saying it. That said, I'm not seeing a persuasive argument for why we shouldn't ban "assault weapons," particularly in light of data showing the efficacy of such bans.
https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022...-mass-shootings-heres-what-the-data-tells-us/
https://www.researchgate.net/public...assault_weapons_bans_on_public_mass_shootings

 

I think it would. A high velocity weapon with high capacity clips is an efficient shooting/killing machine

Like this

Also good measures that should be adopted nationwide

 

I’m curious how this would work, and what sort of checked boxes
You are referring to.

So would this also apply to people who have guns stolen from their house and car from criminals, or does it only apply if kids steal the guns? Does it apply to minor kids or also adult kids?

Probably a stupid question but what is an unregistered gun? Are guns registered? What is an illegal gun?

 

Essentially all of them. No. Ghost guns, guns with too shortened barrels, semi-automatics that have been modified to fully automatic come to mind.

 

What law or amendment allows the government to make that distinction. A law passed by congress would solve this issue or a vote by the voters. This issue is very similar to the Roe vs Wade BS, the courts should not decide these issues, the voters should.

 

That’s what I thought. I’d be all for gun Registration but I was told when that happens the government is going to come take your guns.

 

Ooooh ooooh I know! It's a weapon that won't do jack shit against a tank, drone, or military helicopter.

 

. . . and murder school children. You left that one out.

 

I am willing to bet more school aged kids are killed each year by pistols than by ar 15. But the AR 15 is the scary gun of the moment because it evokes emotions.

 

You're right about the total numbers of course. But there are completely rational explanations for why incidents of men gunning down as many complete strangers as possible evokes different emotions than garden variety murders associated with domestic violence or gang fights.

First, there's something creepy about serial killers and mass killers generally. If they have a preference for targets, we or our loved ones can get killed for checking some box we have no control over. If they're completely indiscriminate in their targets, then literally any of us could be the next victim. That unpredictability fosters disproportionate fear and stress. So do the numbers of potential victims at any given time and location. If we to only evaluate the yearly number of victims in a hyper-objective way, we probably wouldn't have the visceral reaction that we have to acts of terrorism. Finally, there's a reason we've seen even some cops freeze or shelter when facing "assault weapons" in a way that I haven't seen with other firearms.

So again, you're right about the total numbers. But the emotional response to these mass shootings isn't entirely irrational either.