36% of Americans have confidence in higher education

& yet when they break their leg….everyone has a plan until they are punched in the face

 

I don’t think people think the white collar degrees are bad. I think it’s the 80k liberal arts degrees that lead to Starbucks jobs that are the issue. Along with the perception, fair or not, of political bias on campus. The events of the last 9 months have just crystallized that for many.
I do think there’s a place for a liberal arts education, but in the modern world universities aren’t transitioning fast enough to get a higher percentage of their students out with degrees that will get good jobs, way too many wasted degrees or dropouts.

 

I wonder what percent of successful people in technical or trades went to a technical or trade school? Also I wonder what percent that go to those schools are successful?

My perception is trade schools aren’t terribly effective and most learn on the job. But I could be completely wrong?

 

I am probably in the extreme minority on this, but it’s a shame that the value of education is measured almost exclusively with financial metrics

 

You're absolutely right, but the current cost of higher education forces the hand on that. Hard to justify going in massive debt for a degree that doesn't ultimately pay for itself. It's privilege if you're going to college to not make money.

 

I'm a little bit of an odd case because I worked 8 years as a carpenter/carpenter foreman, had already got my general contractors license and had a wife and 2 kids before I went back to finish school part time. I switched majors from civil engineering to BCN after my Jr year because it was going to take me about 2 years to get my degree in engineering when I could graduate BCN in a year. I was 30 when I graduated.

That said there was very little I learned at UF that I didn't learn better in the real world. Oh yes I learned some estimating, scheduling and structure design calculations in college but there are a lot of times that I will take the advice of an old time carpenter over a structural engineer in a heartbeat.

 

Idiocracy

 

most def. I had a GF who went to Smith. She got a degree in religion. Last time we chatted was Xmas after she graduated. She was working as a nanny. Her younger sister went to Smith. Got a degree in something like art history. Graduated, came home pregnant, told her parents that she did not want to have anything to do with the father & did not want to work for 3 years. Yikes!!

 

That's not the purpose of higher education. Besides, a market correction is already happening wrt the degrees you feel are unnecessary.

 

I think it's very generous of you, a person who has multiple degrees, to tell the rest of us that it's not worth it.

Me? I think it's sad. It'll make us economically weaker, politically weaker, and intellectually weaker. Bad actors continue to do harm to this country to further their own selfish agenda. Higher education is a boon for our society. We should be doing everything we can to promote it. And we should be doing everything we can to fix the access issues that exist. Instead, we're moving in the opposite direction, plagued by anti-intellectual idiots.

James Madison's words are quite apt: "A popular Government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy; or, perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance: And a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives."

 

We agree on something. Universities aren't trade schools. Nothing against trade schools. But the social benefit of higher education is not just in preparing a person for a career. It is in teaching them how to think critically, examine arguments and evidence, and preparing them to be productive citizens. A well-rounded education is important.

 

It is absolutely a shame. Of course, in addition to channing’s point above, there is a great challenge in determining what other metrics we should be using to measure the more intangible effects of college. I for one don’t have many bright ideas on this front.

 

I agree. That is an issue we must address. It is a societal failure that college has become so expensive. It's because we've stopped investing in it. (To be clear, I am not saying that colleges and universities play no role in the cost problems we're encountering today.)
Most Americans don't realize state funding for higher ed fell by billions

Yeah, there are a lot of market corrections happening that I think will be harmful in the long run.

 

Agree - there's something special about continued intellectual growth. I'd probably make more money as a plumber or electrician but then . . . I'd have to be a plumber or electrician instead of traveling all over the world, teaching (I'm among the few profs who genuinely loves it), and playing jazz gigs.
This topic tends to be laden w irony here on the college sports board where the vast majority have degrees and comfortable lifestyles. How many of these folks would trade in their UF diploma for a career in A/C repair?

 

That’s a bit unfair; I said liberal arts degrees have their place, heck I was one of them, albeit in a different era.. And I said the change wasn't happening fast enough for some of those not happy with college returns on investment, Not that it wasn’t happening at all.
But that’s the other point, college has become so expensive in many places that’s ROI has to be a central consideration for many. Colleges bright that paradox in themselves largely.

 

That's MAGA for you...the "poorly educated."

 

The goal of higher education should NOT be entirely tied to financial gain. There has to be an aspect of higher education which is about the pursuit of knowledge for the sake of knowledge. Society needs artists, we need basic scientists obsessed with research, we need people who are ok being well trained but poorly paid teachers, we need people interested in understanding how to improve teamwork, we need people trained in important STEM fields, obviously, but we need a whole host of other people too, because rising tides lift all boats. We need people who understand agriculture, even if it doesn't pay well. We need soil and water scientists, ecologists, and forest resources people even if they won't ever really get paid a ton. We need social workers and family youth and community science people, we need people who understand leadership and nonprofit management, we need political scientists, and philosophers, and writers, and journalists, and digital marketing people, and so so so so many more degrees that people probably think don't have great ROI. Not every program needs to be a workforce readiness program. Higher education is not supposed to be about preparing corporate drones.

Yes, there is a dark side to higher ed. A capitalist side. A for profit side. I think, honestly, the world would be better if we just cut that cancer out of the whole higher education endeavor. But that's just one mans opinion.