2,000 mules

For me three things are certain - one the 2020 election will not be overturned, two President Biden is my President regardless if I agree with his policies or not and three there were more voter irregularities it the 2020 election than any other election in my life time.

Is there cause for concern with drop boxes?

As I understand the the film is about concerns over drop boxes and the potential to stuff the ballot box. The film doesn't address the legitimacy of the ballot but makes the assumption that ballots have been harvested by select individuals identified by phone data that dropped multiple ballots off on numerous accounts. The data obtained from cell tower records and security cameras show specific individuals dropping ballots off on more than one occasion. Haven;t seen the film so I can't say how many times specific individuals did it.

Is there concern about voter integrity? I would say there is legitimate concern. A few articles to shed some light on the subject.

Many Democrats think that the 2016 election result was rigged

Previous studies have found that after an election, supporters of the losing candidate tend to be more likely to believe that votes were counted improperly. So how did Donald Trump’s claims that the 2016 election was ‘rigged’ ahead of his own victory influence voters’ perception of the election’s integrity? Using national survey data, Betsy Sinclair, Steven S. Smith and Patrick Tucker find that Republicans gained confidence in the vote after Trump’s election win, while Democrats’ confidence fell. This effect was even more pronounced among better-educated Republicans and Democrats who identified most strongly with their party.
​

THE COVID STATES PROJECT: A 50-STATE COVID-19 SURVEY REPORT #29: ELECTION FAIRNESS AND TRUST IN INSTITUTIONS
Key findings

• While 67% of Americans say President-Elect Biden won the election, 17% suggest that Donald Trump is the winner. Thirty-nine percent of Republicans and 3% of Democrats reported thinking Trump is probably winning or definitely winning.
• Overall, 38% of Americans lack confidence in the fairness of the 2020 presidential election. That number is especially high among Republicans (64%) and Trump voters (69%) compared to Democrats (11%) and Biden voters (8%).
• There are large partisan gaps (over 40 percentage points) in public concerns about mail-in fraud (85% of Republicans, 38% of Democrats), inaccurate or biased vote counts (84% of Republicans, 44% of Democrats), and illegal votes from non-citizens (81% of Republicans, 34% of Democrats).
• Asked about acceptable reactions to an unfair election, 45% of Americans approved of protesting on social media, 38% of protesting in person, 18% approved of violating laws without violence, and 8% of using violence. Non-violent law breaking was approved by 23% Democrats and 17% Republicans, violence by 10% Democrats and 8% Republicans.
• 69% of Americans trust the Supreme Court to handle the election, 43% trust the news media, 31% trust social media companies. Trump is trusted by 39%, Biden by 59%.

No matter how we slice this cake election integrity is a serious issue for citizens.

How a top Democrat lawyer undermined both sides' confidence in U.S. elections

In Georgia, Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger has opened a criminal investigation into allegations that activists engaged in illegal ballot harvesting.

In Wisconsin, a former state Supreme Court justice appointed by the Wisconsin Legislature to investigate the 2020 election exposed an expansive ballot harvesting operation in nursing homes where third-party activists illegally collected the ballots of vulnerable residents, some of whom lacked the mental or physical capacity to vote or were forbidden from voting by guardianship agreements.​

 

The long and short of it is that in the movie itself no actual evidence is presented, it’s just more speculation based in conspiracy theories thrown against the wall to see if anything sticks. The right will undoubtedly use this as an aha! moment, but it proves absolutely nothing.

Cell phone data is not 100% accurate and is subject to the generalized area, and no person was seen at any mailbox more than once. If you have the same individual showing up time and again, that would be one thing, but there’s none of that. There is also no proof that any of these so called ballots are for Biden instead of Trump, and pointing out someone wearing gloves as to being suspicious during a pandemic is just ignorant and foolish.

It’a basically just a bunch of nonsense from a man with a history of trying to accuse the left of wrongdoings while himself being a convicted criminal and liar. D’Souza has no credibility, dude is nuts.

 

Pollster 538 and most other reputable pollsters hours before election day called Biden the winner. Biden’s Favored In Our Final Presidential Forecast, But It’s A Fine Line Between A Landslide And A Nail-Biter. No significant fraud was discovered. Sad how the gullible keep holding on.

 

Unless you've seen the film it is speculation on your part as well as mine.
For the record I am not questionung the ballot. Use of the drop box and security is what is being questioned.
As for cell phone data I agree anyone could have that cell phone. In fact it could be shared by employees of a company. As for location accuracy that depnds on what data is being used.
As for gloves that can certainly be explained as COVID precaution. Camera information can certainly pich that up.

What you see as non-sense others see as an issue. Untill those issues are sufficiently addressed the public perception of voter fraud / rigged elections will continue to be an isse.

 

I’ve seen it as a right wing buddy of mine requested that I view it and was able to give me access to it. I walked away the same as I did before: Completely unconvinced of any wrongdoing or fraud of any type. The film doesn’t prove anything but tries to convince you of the typical conspiracy theory garbage that’s been throw out there since the end of the election.

 

I just have to sit back and smile when the people who were convinced that Russian hookers peed on Trump's bed start talking about conspiracy theories.

 

Surveys, hilarious and meaningless driven by media propaganda on each side.
Really questions should be what is actually on the video. Vetted as to location and time, person on video identified? How many collected from this box? Etc, etc, etc.
If said person was bringing ballots from, say a nursing home, is this illegal, were ballots lawfully filled out or is fraud alleged or allegations of counterfeit bar codes?
Now who asks these questions or was it already looked at.
Lots of crazy rhetoric and what ifs tossed around as fact.
Did Trump win in 2016, yup. Did Russia interfere, yup. They played analytics, social media and the gullible perfectly. Baptists, Conspiracies and the NRA oh my!
Do we interfere in Russia’s elections? Well if they had them yes, but public opinion wise, we try.

Now as for the Top Democratic Lawyer… I am certain I hold them with the same esteem that I hold the top GOP Lawyer. Harvesting vs Redistrcting oh my.

Edited to add. Even if it all was investigated and on video, a la Az, the nutjobs wouldn’t believe it and would keep screaming into the Q.

 

I'll take your word for it.

 

Release the Kraken!!!

Oh wait, different scam. Whatever happened with that?

 

Some Dems in 2016 or 2000 may have believed those elections were unfair, but at least they never attempted to illegally subvert the will of the people.

 

I don't disagree with the questions at all as they should be asked and answered.

It's not the ballot that is in question. It is harvesting and drop box security measures that are in question. I cited an article where investigations are currently active. That said obviously enough or compelling evidence has warranted the investigations. Results of the investigations are yet to follow. If laws were broken no doubt someone will be held accountable. I would also expect legislation to address any short comings.

I also agree there's plenty of rhetoric to go around and it all to easy to paint everyone with a broad brush and write them off. The intent of the post is to show that the rhetoric is unfounded.

That 2016 survey was also conducted in 2020 giving credence to the "winner effect".

As to the lawyer what esteem is that? I will say the instigators come from all professions and all walks of life. Some carry more weight than others and deserve higher scrutiny.

We both agree there will always be nut jobs. Assuring the rest of the public and removing all doubt they are nut jobs is the goal.

As for Russian intervention it was insignificant in the grander scheme but it doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed. That rhetoric spilled into the worst lies fed to the American public and had implications well beyond an election.

 

It's a little hard to take a story seriously when it begins with this:

 

I suppose the author could have written that as the last line. In any case the reader will take seriously or not the message conveyed and the supporting information in the article.

I do realize we live in a sound bite world where opinions are already formulated and nothing will change that opinion. Sort of like the mother and her children who can do no wrong. That said if the public is to be the judge we have to hear / read the case for such a statement.

 

If Authors use partisan rhetoric, they are probably partisan. People always come as themselves, believe them. It is tough to apply serious logic defending stuff written with a bent.

I dislike and distrust all pols, makes it easier. I am jaded…

I would question security of dropboxes too. I would rather see them secured like an ATM into a structure with single sheet feeding drums. My greatest fear is actually an accelerant squirted into boxes and destroying the ballots. What a mess to figure out how to handle.

 

Michael Moore?

 

Drop boxes are not a big issue. You put a legal ballot in one, it is verified as legal and what is the issue? There has not been a significant discrepancy reported with them, or mail-in votes from the election.

 

Good lawd man, did you read my concern…

I like the concept and myself use mail in ballots. The hyper partisanship and nutjobs these days open up security issues that I wouldn’t have worried about a few years ago. It is about a nut burning or trying to steal boxes and the with figuring out how to deal with the missing ballots and time frames

 

I was not disputing your concerns at all.

 

I agree there is a deep seeded kernel of truth to partisanship and bias. As you point out it comes from all spectrum's on the political divide. My personal opinion is that bias also comes with a partial truth and the only way to get to the whole truth is to listen to all sides of the divide. Toss out the rhetoric and focus on the meaningful. Validate the claim and move forward.

In fact you have opened my eyes to a potential issue of destroying votes for whatever purpose one deems fit. Some will say this is far fetched, you are paranoid or worse. I say it's a valid point and should be considered. You even offered a solution you would be comfortable with which highlights the magnitude of concern you have with drop boxes. For what ti's worth I like your solution and I don't think sane people would disagree. Some might even add additional measures at the risk of being told they are disenfranchising voters. In the end I would like to think saner heads prevail.