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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    Shit. Got me lol.
     
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  2. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Yes, because you always want the innocent victim in any crime to hang themselves, even if you have to hand them the rope. Then you can conspire with the criminal to split the loot. It really helps if people are stupid enough to believe that citizens of eastern Ukraine can have a fair referendum with guns pointed at their heads. "Do you vote for Russia, or bullet to head? Comrade, we don't have all day!"
     
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  3. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    All fine. But I first need to ask again the last direct questions, requiring direct answers. Has the President failed to secure the ceasefire that was his objective? Yes or no. If so, whose fault is it, or who is most at fault, that no ceasefire has been achieved: Ukraine, Russia, or the President? And what should the President do now to get the peace on which he campaigned?

    Just so we’re clear, this post is an empty platitude that does not address the questions:
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2025 at 9:51 PM
  4. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Has the President failed to secure the ceasefire that is his objective in 74 days in office? Surely, you understand how ridiculous this question is, which is why I gave it a pass the first go around. As I said previously, it's nothing other than prudent for the POTUS to allow this to play out in the manner most ceasefire negotiations do. President Trump has the information before him: e.g. Russia is not going to vacate the territory currently under their control with formal referendums in these areas where the people have already voted to be a part of Russia and where the Russian government have already extended citizenship and passports to many of the residents.

    So, as long as Russia are making small incremental gains in the field of battle daily, Trump's position only strengthens. Naturally, President Trump doesn't want to reward Russia, but he understands the logistics on the ground. Securing the optimal financial extraction for U.S. interests in the interim is the smart move. Every passing day only reinforces Russia's position. It does not help Ukraine at all. You can't say President Trump hasn't charitably explained this to Zelenskyy. It is Zelenskyy's holding out for naught which is causing the war to drag on.

    Look at this pragmatically in terms of where we stand now with negotiations. Do you see any viable path where Ukraine gets more than a deal which puts American corporate interests inside Ukraine to insulate it from further Russian advance? Unfortunately, I don't think you have the ability to look at this pragmatically. You're still buying into hope that somehow the Russian people are going to flip on the Kremlin over this. Simply because one chooses not to be devoid of reality doesn't make them pro-Russia or pro-Kremlin. You have to be realistic if you want to have a real discussion about how this ends.

    Like it or not, we've backed ourselves into a corner where it is too easy for Russia to make a NATO expansionism complaint. Judging by your personality, I'd bet the house that if you had been born in Russia and were a Russian military officer, nobody would need to twist your arm to believe Putin's position about a security concern in Ukraine.
     
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  5. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole Premium Member

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    Russia has had 700k causalities in Ukraine and their total end strength is believed to be between 1.5M active duty troops. If you lose almost half of your military and then have a draft, I'm not sure how you can say it is not forced.

    Drafts for wars that are not popular are not good as they rile up the segment of the population that have nothing to lose if put in that position.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2025 at 10:28 AM
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  6. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole Premium Member

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    If he had been born in Russia and been a Russian military officer, it is more likely he would be dead by now.
     
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  7. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

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    Because in today’s social media “news,” narrative is more important than truth.
     
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  8. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Beat me to it. That was going to be part of my longer response later today.
     
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  9. vegasfox

    vegasfox GC Hall of Fame

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