War in Ukraine

duggers_dad · Mar 7, 2025 at 12:52 PM

Yes, Trump probably really believed he could get Trump and Zelensky in a room and knock their heads together.

vegasfox · Mar 7, 2025 at 2:58 PM

Are the EU countries democracies?

slayerxing · Mar 7, 2025 at 2:58 PM

G8trGr8t said: ↑

Ukraine War Map Shows Russian Retreat on Three Fronts

Ukrainian troops are reportedly making gains along three parts of the front as Russian forces face a manpower shortage and poor command.

One pro-Moscow military blogger has lamented how Ukrainian forces are exerting growing pressure on Russian troops in the Donetsk region, as a map shows the latest state of play.

It comes amid recent advances by Ukrainian forces near Toretsk and Pokrovsk and concerns about continued United States aid for Kyiv's war effort.
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I was reading something similar. Ukraine seems to be pivoting to active defense. Is this just a momentary thing or has Russia finally shot their wad from a manpower perspective?

duggers_dad · Mar 7, 2025 at 3:05 PM

slayerxing said: ↑

I was reading something similar. Ukraine seems to be pivoting to active defense. Is this just a momentary thing or has Russia finally shot their wad from a manpower perspective?
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Russian manpower is ever increasing.

vegasfox · Mar 7, 2025 at 3:20 PM

Russian journalist Darya Dugia and American journalist Gonzalo Lira were both murdered by Ukraine. Both were on Ukraine's kill list, Myrotvorets.

Other Americans on the hit list include:
Scott Ritter
Tulsi Gabbard
Jack Posobiec

okeechobee · Mar 7, 2025 at 3:58 PM

PITBOSS said: ↑

“Hello Mr, Putin sir. I’ll just talk about threats for political purposes.”

“Da, da Donald, good, I approve.”
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More likely that Trump said these things to stroke Zelenskyy’s ego and get him to lower his guard. Purely politically speaking, Trump is playing with house money at this point and gives a damn not what the media or Dems say about him. He also understands no matter what he says or does, they’re going to attack him. So this is probably red meat for Zelenskyy and nothing more.

okeechobee · Mar 7, 2025 at 4:07 PM

uftaipan said: ↑

So you now acknowledge that conquest of Ukraine the ultimate goal, and that these negotiations are only a means to buy time and reconstitute? Well, that’s progress at least.
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No. I was doing a lousy impersonation of Zelenskyy. During Cold War times, we went nearly 50 years without feeling a thing and with the Soviet Union in control of Poland and half of Germany, in addition to Ukraine, all the Baltics and more. In other words, the red herring is simply another manifestation of Zelenskyy’s cunningness in brainwashing fear across the world over nothing. Trump rightly rebuked him for it.

chemgator · Mar 7, 2025 at 4:29 PM

CHFG8R said: ↑

Think Palestine/Israel. You can put whatever judgement you want on it, but the last 3 years has sealed a kind of hatred that will take generations to go away, if it ever goes away. Wouldn't surprise me if you saw Ukrainian terrorist acts against Russians 50 years from now. This isn't going to just go away. People have lost loved ones, multiple in many cases. Logic isn't going to enter the equation outside of operations.
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You'll have to get Lee Harvey to admit that Russia invaded Ukraine without significant provocation in Feb., 2022 first. Your words are merely bells and whistles to him until he develops the capacity to understand that not-so-small fact. He's not ready to admit that yet. He's basically standing outside of a 12-step recovery program for propaganda-holics and disapproving of the welcome mat. Step 1 is a long, long way away.

chemgator · Mar 7, 2025 at 4:38 PM

okeechobee said: ↑

No. I was doing a lousy impersonation of Zelenskyy. During Cold War times, we went nearly 50 years without feeling a thing and with the Soviet Union in control of Poland and half of Germany, in addition to Ukraine, all the Baltics and more. In other words, the red herring is simply another manifestation of Zelenskyy’s cunningness in brainwashing fear across the world over nothing. Trump rightly rebuked him for it.
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Do you really think that Americans were feeling nothing when the Soviets tried to starve out the American sector in Berlin and we had to airlift supplies to them to keep them alive?

Do you think that Americans were feeling nothing when teachers had to go through drills for children to duck under their desks in case a nuclear bomb was dropped nearby?

Do you think that Americans were feeling nothing when Russia started to set up nuclear missiles in Cuba aimed at the U.S.?

Do you think that Americans were feeling nothing when the Soviets plowed into Afghanistan and tried to take over the country?

Trump is an imbecile.

okeechobee · Mar 7, 2025 at 4:45 PM

Not when all it took was us pulling our missiles out of turkey for them to pull theirs out of Cuba.

PITBOSS · Mar 7, 2025 at 7:32 PM

Trump really helped putin by cutting off intel to Ukraine.

“Not only Kursk, in all Russian territory there are problems now,” he says. The Ukrainians have lost the ability to detect the approach of Russian bombers and other warplanes as they take off inside Russia. As a result, Ukraine has less time to warn civilians and military personnel about the risk of an approaching airstrike or missile. “It’s very dangerous for our people,” the government source says.”

Hundreds Dead: Inside the Trump Ukraine Fallout

demosthenes · Mar 7, 2025 at 7:40 PM

PITBOSS said: ↑

Trump really helped Putin by cutting off intel to Ukraine.

“Not only Kursk, in all Russian territory there are problems now,” he says. The Ukrainians have lost the ability to detect the approach of Russian bombers and other warplanes as they take off inside Russia. As a result, Ukraine has less time to warn civilians and military personnel about the risk of an approaching airstrike or missile. “It’s very dangerous for our people,” the government source says.”

Hundreds Dead: Inside the Trump Ukraine Fallout
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No, no you don’t get it. Trump really cares about the Ukrainian people.

duchen · Mar 7, 2025 at 8:31 PM

uftaipan said: ↑

Well, that’s pessimistic but not an altogether unreasonable interpretation given what we have seen over the last two weeks. Since I have no alternative course of action, I will hope that Russia is finally starting irritate the President with its intransigence.
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Trump spoke later and said that Russia did what anyone else would do. And said Russia was easier to deal with than Ukraine. To be clear, America stands with Ukraine. Stopped assistance. Stopped sharing intel. And blinded their access to satellite. https://www.the Times.com/us/american-politics/article/trump-ukraine-ceasefire-minerals-deal-6qk6c0mzb

duchen · Mar 7, 2025 at 8:37 PM

chemgator said: ↑

Do you really think that Americans were feeling nothing when the Soviets tried to starve out the American sector in Berlin and we had to airlift supplies to them to keep them alive?

Do you think that Americans were feeling nothing when teachers had to go through drills for children to duck under their desks in case a nuclear bomb was dropped nearby?

Do you think that Americans were feeling nothing when Russia started to set up nuclear missiles in Cuba aimed at the U.S.?

Do you think that Americans were feeling nothing when the Soviets plowed into Afghanistan and tried to take over the country?

Trump is an imbecile.
Click to expand...

He may have missed the Soviet behavior in Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia. Or its forment of revolutions in Vietnam— where we suffered pain.

danmanne65 · Mar 7, 2025 at 9:03 PM

okeechobee said: ↑

You couldn't be more wrong. This has very little to do with NATO's longevity going forward. Take politics out of this and look at it pragmatically. We have three choices. They are as follows:

Option #1 Continue the same course and hope for a different outcome. Yes, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. The insanity argument. i.e. fighting a proxy war, sending Ukraine hundreds of billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars after having done so for 3+ years and watching Ukraine make zero headway. (ex. much-hyped counteroffensives have flopped) Meanwhile Russia has made steady, albeit incremental gains in the interim and continues doing so as we speak. It is not realistic, nor in our best national interests to continue throwing tens of billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars into a proxy war yielding zero results, while at the same time claiming the lives of thousands each week. It is a humanitarian crisis if there ever was one and we are burning large sums of U.S. taxpayer funds in the process.

A proxy war rests on the idea that the proxy can actually execute the objectives on the ground. We've had more than enough time to evaluate this and are sufficiently advised Ukrainian forces are not capable of executing the objective. It's been claimed we need to throw MORE money at this for Ukraine to have a chance. Yeah, right. That's not a viable plan, because one, they've already shown an inability to execute on the aid given thus far despite predictions of grandeur and two, when it inevitably fails like all of the previous aid packages have failed, Ukraine loses even more leverage every time. Why? Because by making this a proxy war, NATO have shown they have no interest in a direct entanglement with Russia and that their hopes rely solely upon Ukrainian forces ability to execute. Every time it is proven Ukraine cannot execute the objectives, Russia gains leverage, because Russia knows direct NATO intervention isn't in the cards. After all, if it was, NATO would have simply handled it themselves from the start.

Option #2 direct NATO intervention, which has been off the table from the beginning for obvious reasons. After 3 years of a proxy war that has cost hundreds of thousands of human lives on both sides, direct intervention into the war by NATO would guarantee World War 3. And then you have the two countries with the most nuclear warheads on the planet at war with each other, along with all of Europe. Probably not a good idea. Hence why NATO hasn't done it.

Option #3 a peace treaty which firmly establishes boundaries, parameters and order in Europe and at the Ukrainian/Russian/Belarusian borders.

Only one of those options ends the humanitarian catastrophe. Only one of those options has a realistic chance of success. We are not going to subjugate the largest country in the world, who happens to have access to the most natural resources in the world, who happens to have the 2nd largest army in the world and oh yeah, who happens to have more nuclear warheads than anyone else in the world, via proxy. Time for a peace treaty.
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You are an idiot.

danmanne65 · Mar 7, 2025 at 9:04 PM

okeechobee said: ↑

Man, you're just lost. Rich of you to quote as support Reagan era foreign policy, which ultimately funded Osama Bin Laden's cousins in the Mujahideen. Funding occurred over a 13-year span, not 9. From 1979-1992. Mostly under Reagan, and then Bush Sr.

The issue being that over that 13-year span you reference, the total aid given to the Mujahideen by the United States was $3 billion. (or roughly $7.5 billion when adjusted for inflation in today dollars) So, not even a billion dollars per year was given to the Mujahideen to fight the Soviets. By comparison, we've given $350 billion to Ukraine in the past 3 years. Quite literally the funding we gave the Mujahideen was a drop in the bucket compared to what we've given Ukraine. And frankly, perhaps you should reconsider my point about tactical ability of the proxy to execute. Look what the Mujahideen was able to do with a tiny fraction of the aid we've given Ukraine. I rest my case.

For you to understand the insanity of option #1, you should probably gain some proper perspective. That may help. Although, I suspect due to your TDS, it won't change your line of attack.
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danmanne65 · Mar 7, 2025 at 9:05 PM

okeechobee said: ↑

And I'm sure, even though we have nice big ocean, I'm sure we'd feel it some day if this were to ever happen.
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You are an idiot

danmanne65 · Mar 7, 2025 at 9:05 PM

okeechobee said: ↑

More likely that Trump said these things to stroke Zelenskyy’s ego and get him to lower his guard. Purely politically speaking, Trump is playing with house money at this point and gives a damn not what the media or Dems say about him. He also understands no matter what he says or does, they’re going to attack him. So this is probably red meat for Zelenskyy and nothing more.
Click to expand...

You are an idiot.

danmanne65 · Mar 7, 2025 at 9:07 PM

okeechobee said: ↑

Not when all it took was us pulling our missiles out of turkey for them to pull theirs out of Cuba.
Click to expand...

You are an idiot.

slayerxing · Mar 7, 2025 at 9:28 PM

okeechobee said: ↑

Not when all it took was us pulling our missiles out of turkey for them to pull theirs out of Cuba.
Click to expand...

You gotta be effing kidding me…

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