Why did no one help her? Fatal subway burning exposes New York City’s sad disconnect to humanity

I agree with a lot of your takes but can't get on board with this one. Why should people have to wait for someone to put their hands on someone when they're acting in a threatening manner? Dude went too far and I could understand getting negligent homicide but I'm not gonna go in on the narrative that neeleys actions weren't worthy of intervention. I have a lot of experience with homeless and I imagine I am not threatened by them nearly as much as the average person but there are lines to be crossed and I don't believe you have to wait to have physical contact to remove a threat. I wasn't there but from is a difference in a crazy person yelling and a crazy person threatening in close proximity. Ymmv

 

I get that, but preemptively strangling a guy to death should be reserved for situations where there is a clear threat to life …. I have no problem with restraining a guy until police arrive … but not a choke hold for 10 minutes.

 

Yeah I don't disagree. He went too far with the hold but I can't get with the "harmless homeless man" narrative that polarizes the situation. Not that I believe Trump and the right putting Penny on a pedestal is appropriate although I don't vilify him like some either. If you're going to intervene like that you should know what you're doing

 

I didn’t say that, I said no one would question the methods used to stop a guy that set a person on fire. Preemptively killing a person because you are afraid they MIGHT do something harmful should be illegal. Some witnesses testified he was acting in a threatening way, others testified it was just another Tuesday afternoon on the NY subway with a mentally ill person yelling …. I can’t condone murder based on arbitrary perceptions. I think a person should have to actually do some harm before a 10 minute joke hold is justified.

 

I understand where WDG is coming from but I do think circumstances can change things
1. It was an enclosed subway car. Once the threats were made there was no way to get away from Neely. Once violence started there would be no way to get away from it.
2. I do not believe Penny intentionally killed Neely. He applied a restraining choke hold and Neely was still alive e when paramedics arrived.
3. If my family was in that subway car and a homeless man starts ranting and raving and threatening to kill someone… I’d want every step to be taken BEFORE violence began to stop any chance of it happening.

 

Most people testified he didn't make any actual threats against other passengers, just said things like "I'm not afraid to die", which I can see being taken as an indirect threat. Most people testified he didn't touch or even approach any other passengers, but that he "violently threw his jack on the floor" and made lunging motions. I wouldn't want to be in a subway car with him, but I don't think he did anything that warranted death.

People can be heard on the video evidence telling Penny he was killing the man, so it's not a surprise that he died. I'm not sure if it's true that he was alive when the medics got there, all I see it that he was pronounced dead at a hospital, which isn't unusual, even if he was likely dead when picked up. There is no doubt Penny caused his death.

“He’s dying,” an unseen bystander said in the background of one video. “Let him go!”

If it were me, I'd position myself between my family and the man and change cars at the next stop. In fact, I've done that before in both NY and Paris when crazy people made me uncomfortable ...

 

gee, it seems there are a couple key points left out of that statement regarding that case.

 

Just a reminder that Daniel Penny was acquitted by a jury culled from a liberal s***hole.

I infer that the man he killed was considered a present threat to passengers.

 

More people voted for Republicans/Trump in NYC than in all of Wyoming, so how can you infer anything that you arent just pulling out of your ass

 

You wrote: “Americans are scared to help others in fear of being arrested or called a racist, thanks to the whacky left”

I’ve never heard anyone say that so it seems to me you’re projecting your own fears on others. Hence my question, what specifically are you afraid of?

Are you asking if I believe in the bystander effect? Yes, I do. One of my degrees is psychology so I studied it in detail and I’ve seen it firsthand a couple of times. Coincidentally, the principal case cited for the effect is the Kitty Genovese murder in Queens where nearly 40 people heard or observed the murder but all assumed someone else was calling the police or otherwise helping.

 

Putting this self revelatory statement under the focus of another current thread speculating on the survival of our democracy without the underpinnings of Christianity raises another question. I won't make suppositions on the motivation of the poster quoted, but charitable assistance is foundational in the faith of Jesus. Professing 'Christians' intentionally denying or refusing immediate assistance to those in dire need, charity to the orphaned and indigent, have no legitimacy when claiming to be a follower of the Christ. What is the greater fear in this circumstance? A loss of questionable status among one's peers for assisting the "undeserving" indigent, as opposed to intentionally and willfully ignoring the words of Jesus informing his listeners when they feed and clothe those in need it is if they are feeding and clothing him. The gospels and epistles are filled with exhortations to sacrificially bestow assistance and charity whenever and wherever it is needed. What prioritizes these "fears"? What makes them REAL? Do people who deny or refuse to render immediate assistance to those who need it legitimately believe what they profess, or unwittingly exposing their lack of faith?

 

Just another day in the NYC subway …

Man critically injured after being pushed onto subway tracks in Chelsea

 

With all the cameras, should be an open and shut case. Charge should be attempted murder. I would never stand near the platform edge until the train is there.