joey regualarly conducted guvment business under a fake name

vegasfox · Dec 21, 2024 at 3:29 PM

AzCatFan said: ↑

The PRA has no teeth as a law. But the Espionage Act does. And what if the docs Trump took had top secret information on who the CIA was using as foreign agents? And there was a rash of said agents being lost after the docs were left at Mar-a-Lago?

It would be difficult to argue a list of CIA foreign assets were a personal record line a diary. And it wouldn't matter if Trump had copies or originals.
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And...

And

vaxcardinal · Dec 21, 2024 at 3:43 PM

AzCatFan said: ↑

In declassification, there is a process that must be followed. If not followed, how can people without clearance distinguish between actual classified documents and ones declassified by Presidential thought?

Legal precedent supports the procedure requirement. From 2020 case NY Times v CIA, the court ruled, "ecause declassification, even by the President, must follow established procedures, that argument fails."

One reason why procedure must be followed are there are certain docs even the POTUS cannot unilaterally declassify like nuclear weapon secrets. These would be marked the highest level of classification, which is TS-SCI, which is Top Secret open in SCIF (Secure Room) only. Some if the documents found at Mar-a-Lago contained this classification level.

Again, Trump has admitted he never declassified the documents found. And there is no evidence the process of declassification ever started. Throw in Trump's lies about the documents, including attempts to move and hide them, and it makes one wonder what Trump’s intents were.

All moot now. Trump got lucky and found a judge willing to overlook legal precedent and rule in his favor. And now Trump will be POTUS again, he's got a reprieve for four years.
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Are you suggesting that there were nuclear secrets in these documents?

vaxcardinal · Dec 21, 2024 at 3:45 PM

CaptUSMCNole said: ↑

I would disagree that the lower court's ruling stands when it comes to the POTUS. It is still an open question.

You are missing the question the the SCOTUS would be answering. It is if the POTUS can be constrained by having to wait for a subordinate member of the Executive Branch approval before he can act when it comes to matters of National Security. If the POTUS becomes aware that a hostile power has planes in the air about to attack an ally, does he need a GS-15 to sign off on him sharing that information with the ally before he can do it?

This is not about Trump. It is about the power of the POTUS and the office holder being constrained by a lesser official in the Executive Branch when it comes to an Executive Order.
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Reason why Biden hasn’t provided info about the drones is because I’ve been on leave and have not yet approved sharing of that information

vaxcardinal · Dec 21, 2024 at 3:47 PM

vegasfox said: ↑

As I understand it every document Trump took was a digital document and not the original document and was classified as a presidential record. All Trump had to do was take the docs, no declassification process needed.

Imagine Trump did violate the PRA. What could he criminal charges and penalties could he face? The PRA doesn't mention any, therefore Trump could not be charged criminally (per Robert Barnes to the best of my recollection)
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What’s a digital document?

vegasfox · Dec 21, 2024 at 7:59 PM

vaxcardinal said: ↑

What’s a digital document?
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A pdf for example

This is an area where I suspect you know a lot more than me. What I meant was that Trump was taking digital documents that had been printed out, not original paper documents.

Digital documents are different from electronic documents and I don't think I want to know how.

vaxcardinal · Dec 21, 2024 at 8:06 PM

vegasfox said: ↑

A pdf for example

This is an area where I suspect you know a lot more than me. What I meant was that Trump was taking digital documents that had been printed out, not original paper documents.

Digital documents are different from electronic documents and I don't think I want to know how.
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Ok, so printouts. I printout documents all the time. Whether the document is online or printed they still have to be properly handled.

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