joey regualarly conducted guvment business under a fake name

VPOTUS has the same declassification powers as the POTUS. So, why weren't Biden's and Pence's documents automatically declassified in the same way?

Maybe because neither the POTUS nor VPOTUS can magically declassify documents with just the power of his/her mind? They can't. There's an entire declassification process documents must go through until they are officially declassified. And once the declassified mark appears on the doc, then the document is officially declassified. Until this happens, there is no way for anyone with or without clearance to distinguish between still classified docs, and documents the POTUS magically declassifies by saying "Yapple dapple!"

In addition, Trump has admitted he didn't declassify the documents, either officially or magically.

So I ask again, what was Trump's intent with the documents? There's never been confirmation that Biden was using the docs to feed the ghostwriter to ensure accuracy for the book, but again, this seems like a legit use of the docs, as long as no sensitive information is leaked. But Trump? He lied about having them, tried to hide them, and refused to cooperate. And no, the docs were NOT declassified.

 

While Trump had the authority to declassify documents when he was in office, at a minimum he had to provide notice that he was declassifying the documents. He failed to do so and his authority to declassify ended concurrently with his term in office. Absconding with the documents did not declassify them.

 

All Trump had to do was take the documents while president. Didn't have to give notice to anyone. Case closed

 

Wrong from the get-go

 

Wrong. Try again. After an Obama EO in 2009, the VPOTUS now has the same declassification authority as the POTUS. Now, want to try address the rest of the post?

 

VPOTUS does not have the same declassification powers as the POTUS. Obama made the VPOTUS an OCA but that does not mean he has the same declassification authorities as POTUS.

The question remains if POTUS can declassify documents just by saying they are since that has not been brought before the SCOTUS, who would have the final word on it. Until then, no one really knows if the POTUS can declassify them just by saying so. The issue is if the POTUS would have to document that with a GS-15 or SES, then the POTUS is constrained in his position as the head of the Executive Branch by a subordinate.

Agree that Trump has stated that he did not declassify some of those documents.

 

This post on X comes with a series of Robert Barnes videos that can be watched. Most are 1-2 minutes long

 

Any proof of this assertion? Or is it just wishful opinion that shines a better light on your side of the aisle

 

In declassification, there is a process that must be followed. If not followed, how can people without clearance distinguish between actual classified documents and ones declassified by Presidential thought?

Legal precedent supports the procedure requirement. From 2020 case NY Times v CIA, the court ruled, "ecause declassification, even by the President, must follow established procedures, that argument fails."

One reason why procedure must be followed are there are certain docs even the POTUS cannot unilaterally declassify like nuclear weapon secrets. These would be marked the highest level of classification, which is TS-SCI, which is Top Secret open in SCIF (Secure Room) only. Some if the documents found at Mar-a-Lago contained this classification level.

Again, Trump has admitted he never declassified the documents found. And there is no evidence the process of declassification ever started. Throw in Trump's lies about the documents, including attempts to move and hide them, and it makes one wonder what Trump’s intents were.

All moot now. Trump got lucky and found a judge willing to overlook legal precedent and rule in his favor. And now Trump will be POTUS again, he's got a reprieve for four years.

 

Again, the SCOTUS has not weighted in on this topic and whether or not the POTUS has to go through a process/procedure to declassify something. Until that actually happens, or the SCOTUS chooses to decline to take a case and defers to a lower courts ruling, this is still an open question.

I'm not sure this particular SCOTUS is going to say that the POTUS is constrained by declassification procedures that set by an Executive Order and requires a member of the executive branch to sign off that the declassification procedure is complete before a POTUS can act.

 

This seems to indicate my assertion that the economy and inflation were the reason that Trump was elected is accurate.
How Trump won the 2024 election — CBS News exit poll results

No where in the article does it even mention that the charges against Trump were a factor.

 

SCOTUS hasn't ruled yet. But until if and when they do, the lower court ruling of needing procedure stands.

And to overturn the lower court's ruling on procedure, the SCOTUS will need to answer why procedure isn't needed. What happens if the POTUS magically declassifies documents not within his broad powers to do so, such as nuclear secrets? And without procedure, how can anyone distinguish between still classified and magically declassified documents?

The SCOTUS may be in Trump's back pocket, but even they know their rulings are history, and will extend beyond Trump's term and lifespan. Difficult to believe any court will rule procedure isn't needed.

 

" [I/]Legal precedent" is the reason brilliant lawyers like Robert Barnes and Mike R. Davis said Trump would walk from the very beginning.

"The legal precedent for the case was the 2012 decision by Obama judge Amy Berman Jackson on the case involving Bill Clinton. Clinton discussed highly classified info with a ghostwriter over a period of many years and kept the audiotapes in his sock drawer. A
former president can keep whatever presidential records he wants and the government has no authority to seize them. Period."l

That was the Department of Justice’s legal opinion a decade ago. It was a conclusion shared by both the National Archives and a U.S. District Court in Washington D.C. On that basis, ex-president Bill Clinton was allowed to maintain custody of whatever he wanted, including allegedly classified audio tapes that he stored in his home.

Here is former Gorsuch law clerk Mike R. Davis debating the case with Aron Rosenberg on Megyn Kelly's podcast. The m9st relevan5 part of the podcast is 4:00 to 50:0 Minsk.


How many of the documents sent to Mar-a-Lago were packed by the GSA and sent in GSA boxes?
The Brief: It Was Okay for Bill Clinton to Keep Presidential Records, But Not Trump? – Gregg Jarrett



I knew Trump would walk in all 4 cases. No luck involved.

 

I would disagree that the lower court's ruling stands when it comes to the POTUS. It is still an open question.

You are missing the question the the SCOTUS would be answering. It is if the POTUS can be constrained by having to wait for a subordinate member of the Executive Branch approval before he can act when it comes to matters of National Security. If the POTUS becomes aware that a hostile power has planes in the air about to attack an ally, does he need a GS-15 to sign off on him sharing that information with the ally before he can do it?

This is not about Trump. It is about the power of the POTUS and the office holder being constrained by a lesser official in the Executive Branch when it comes to an Executive Order.

 

The tapes kept in Clinton's sock drawer were legally deemed personal records, such as a diary. Therefore, they were not subject to the Presidential Records Act. I can guarantee all the MAR documents were not personal records of Trump.

As for sharing classified intel with foreign countries, I thought we had bilateral agreements to be able to share intel already with allies. These agreements allow the POTUS to share information without first having to wait to declassify it.

 

Any document the president or his staff creates or receives is deemed a personal record says Mike R. Davis (per the Megyn Kelly/Mike R. Davis/Aron Rosenberg tape I linked in post #53 above (to the best of my recollection).

 

Then wouldn't this deem the PRA completely useless? And do you think courts will consider things like nuclear secrets to be a personal record on par with a diary?

As for a POTUS needing to wait to declassify, in a state of emergency, the State of Emergency Act grants a POTUS extra powers. This includes the ability to declassify on the spot for national security reasons during the emergency.

 

If you disagree with the PRA tell Congress to pass a new law. The Clinton precedent was ser by an Obama judge.

What are "presidential records? Go to minute 23:00 and listen for a minute at the most

 

As I understand it every document Trump took was a digital document and not the original document and was classified as a presidential record. All Trump had to do was take the docs, no declassification process needed.

Imagine Trump did violate the PRA. What could he criminal charges and penalties could he face? The PRA doesn't mention any, therefore Trump could not be charged criminally (per Robert Barnes to the best of my recollection)

 

The PRA has no teeth as a law. But the Espionage Act does. And what if the docs Trump took had top secret information on who the CIA was using as foreign agents? And there was a rash of said agents being lost after the docs were left at Mar-a-Lago?

It would be difficult to argue a list of CIA foreign assets were a personal record line a diary. And it wouldn't matter if Trump had copies or originals.