War in Ukraine

The west has no leverage to negotiate Ukraine into nato without legit threatening war. That’s it. There is no economic incentive in a vacuum that Russia will accept imo. I just doubt the west has the stones to make that threat and mean it. Honestly if the alliance legit did that I think Russia would walk away if we gave them a tasty enough carrot to choose over the stick. But we don’t have the leadership anywhere to pull that off.

 

Can you imagine Putin or Xi talking this way about what they want to do to Americans ?

 

Plus, we don’t have the stones … to throw.

 

Agree. To be clear, what I took from the article I linked above was this is the first time Zelenskyy has floated the idea of giving up the land he has lost to the Russians. Regardless of the NATO context behind it, this is not a small shift.

 

Don’t underestimate Russia’s resolve in keeping Kyiv out of NATO. There is no carrot big or tasty enough to dangle in front of them for this. It is a red line for them in the same sense our southern border is a red line for DJT.

 

Or we have the stones to throw, but is it worth it? No.

 

What is the “rut roh” here? This is a pretend offer to illustrate Russia’s bad faith. Russia does not just want the areas of Ukraine it currently occupies. It wants the whole thing. If it was just about those areas, it would take this deal in a hot second. But the rest of Ukraine joining NATO means not only can Russia not come after the rest a few years from now but also that Russia will have to constantly be on guard (in its mind) about the pieces of Ukraine it controls. The offer is just intended to reveal Russian long-term intentions for those willfully naive enough to believe that this war was only about limited objectives in Eastern Ukraine.

 

Not a credible source. Where does the bloggers info come from?

As was discussed on The Duran (top foreign policy podcast) a day or two ago, Ukraine exaggerates its successful missile interception rates by "orders of magnitude."

 

You think Putin is going to five up his gains in those four regions on the promise that Ukraine will stay out of NATO?

 

I’m sure that is a really top quality FP podcast based on the other sources you have been providing on this thread.

If you think Ukraine is lying, why is their electrical grid and power generation still up and running?

 

I smelled these clowns on you from from day 1. Yeah, great Russian Propaganda site. Next time, just keep it to yourself and you won't look like such a fool.

 

Straight from the FSB to your ears. It's complete garbage. Truest test is that Russia apparently never ever loses anything. . . at all. . . ever. Just one big 3-year wave of positive outcomes for Russia and nothing but losses for the "evil West". That's the line of thinking in that pseudo-intellectual cesspool.

 

No one can doubt the ability of Russia to take out the Dnieper River bridges (Russia is east of the Dnieper). Why didn't Russia blow up the bridges? Because they'll be using the bridges to cross the river, giving Russia an even stronger negotiating position.

Russia no longer considers Zelensky the legit president of Ukraine. His term expired months ago. Time for him to leave before hypersonic missiles take him out.

 

Man, no. No, no, no. Russia would not take this deal ever. Russia's express goal has always been to keep Ukraine out of NATO. They can accomplish this by neutering Ukraine's stranglehold on the ports along the Black Sea, which as you can see, they've obviously targeted. If Russia had a desire to administer the entire state of Ukraine, they would have cut a deal a long time ago with one of Kyiv's more Kremlin-friendly leaders. It is too costly for them and they have plenty of natural resources already. What they can't accept is another NATO member state on their border. In this case, one that has access to such crucially strategic military ports along the Black Sea. Russians are a paranoid lot. They do not care much if Finland is in NATO, but Ukraine, where the Russians have docked their naval Black Sea fleet for years cannot fall to enemy hands. It is a security threat to them, regardless of how we view it.

 

I didn't say that. I simply said Putin would choose that option before he'd choose your proposal. Both proposals are unrealistic, to put it lightly.

 

My sources are better on average than those used by any other poster on this thread with the exception of duggers_dad. The Duran has been called the #1 foreign policy podcast in the world.

As for Ukraine's electrical grid, Russia just took out power to well over 1 million Ukrainians in response to Ukrainian long range missile attacks. If Russia wanted to turn off the power to millions more they could easily do so. Ask Mr. Oreshnik, Mr. Kinzhal and Mr Zircon, among others.

 

You gotta have the ability to nut up and take a stand - if you prove time and again you don’t you really lose a lot of leverage. If Russia thought the west would seriously fight I do believe they would back down especially if combined with some kind of economic incentive not to fight.

 

IMO, we've already sent that message with what we've done so far. If the goal was deterrence, that's been accomplished. But the goal hasn't been deterrence. Lloyd Austin has been quite clear about this. The goal has been to degrade the Russian military. If we haven't sufficiently done so yet, then we have some issues to address at home and should probably move to deescalate.

 

Sure they are. We'll just take your word for it. Oh and your boy Alex. THE source for "unbiased" reporting of the war. LOL!!! Dude, just take off the red nose already.

 

Then you tell me how you think this conflict ends.