War in Ukraine

Arming your proxies in perpetuity to further your own foreign policy is the same difference. If its such a great investment, why do you doubt the people saying Trump can be talked out of discontinuing arms sales? The guy has literally been talked out of every position he's ever taken at some point lol. In essence you are basically saying Trump is the peace candidate!

 

Trump is the same guy who made a deal to get out of Afghanistan but didn't want to pay the cost of seeing it carried out and endlessly delayed it. Its feasible to me you just see the similar thing from Trump as Biden/Harris in Israel ... endless talk of imminent deals or negotiations while arms sales continue on a bipartisan basis. Like maybe he's ok with taking hits from Ukraine being totally overrun and being seen as the guy who lost it (to gain what exactly?), but I assume you could play to his vanity on trying to get a "deal" where you look like the hero. Giving arms to Ukraine is just leverage for a better deal after all.

 

LOL at people who believe we have two parties. We only have two factions vying to serve the interests of the Military-Industrial Complex.

 

putin buying meat for the slaughter from N Korea

Thousands of North Korean soldiers deployed to Ukraine (msn.com)

Thousands of North Korean soldiers are undergoing intense training with the aim of being deployed to Ukraine, according to a report by the American NGO Institute for the Study of War.

The organization indicates that Kim Jong Un's troops are expected to be sent to the front lines "by the end of 2024," providing a significant military advantage for Vladimir Putin.

While foreign mercenaries are already fighting alongside both armies, the deployment of North Korean troops would mark a turning point in the conflict's history, as it would be the first time a government officially sends its soldiers.

A source within Ukrainian intelligence informed the organization that "several thousand" soldiers are currently training in Russia.

 

It's a huge difference because no American military members are in harms way or being reported killed every night.

Trump is a wholly owned puppet of Putin who wants to roll tanks into Europe. Letting Putin run unchecked will cause more war and more death outside of Ukraine.

 

I understand that’s the necessary narrative in an election year, and I’m no more comfortable than you with the “great relations” he has with Putin, Orban, etc. But even if there’s a kernel of truth in the “Putin owns Trump” narrative, then it’s still true that the national security advisory group that he will necessarily have to surround himself with are not owned by Putin, and they recognize the danger of just letting Putin have what he wants so he doesn’t throw a tantrum. Can Trump overrule his NS team? Sure. But not without risking an embarrassing level of resignations right at the beginning of his second term and being unable to fill these roles with anyone remotely qualified.

In the unlikely event that Trump wins, what will happen is 1. he will find imposing his simplistic will on either Russia or the combined front of Ukraine and U.S. allies is not nearly as easy as he he thinks; 2. once he has access to the classified information the Biden Administration has denied him and his advisors, he will see of the two groups, Russia is the far more vulnerable and movable party; 3. his advisors are going to line up that pushing Russia harder represents the quicker end that Trump ultimately wants; 4. we will all be amazed how quickly the strongest supporters of giving Russia what they want turn their cloaks and see the genius in pushing Russia toward a face-saving defeat.

 

Sounds like Putin has opened the door for Western nations to likewise send volunteer expeditionary forces. So be it.

 

Congrats on a post more delusional than the last. His NATSEC people are also going to be Putin puppets like Michael Flynn. He will not allow any contrarians around him this time.

He won't do one thing Putin doesn't want. He can't even bring himself to criticize anything Putin does out loud.

 

Chickenhawks never met a war they didn’t want to fight with other people.

 

Could be. That’s not my read. And unlike your good self I’ve met some of the people you’re dismissing as “Putin puppets.” I don’t like Trump. I don’t support Trump. But I have more respect than you do for the structural elements of this country that will rope him in to certain courses of action whether he likes it or not.

 

If you desire peace in Ukraine you’re a Putin puppet.

 

Of course the American government would rather other people die for its foreign policy objectives, but its still a war, one in which you certainly agree American weapons are critical to its indefinite sustainability.

 

Or, by extension, only prolonging Ukraine’s agony.

 

Most intelligent people know that Ukraine's primary agony will start after Russia takes over and they become vassals of Russia. No more free voting, no more saying what they are thinking, arbitrary arrests and imprisonment for having the wrong opinion, forced conscription into military duty and sent off to distant wars, foreign overlords gorging themselves on the profits of their natural resources, etc. Basically, no freedom and no hope. That is the agony that Ukraine is staring in the face. Dimwits may tell themselves that Russia will be gentle slave owners, but the rest of us know better. Ukrainians know about the torture centers, and know they will not go away if they lose this war. They do not want to become Ukrainestan.

 

Interesting story about how communist countries work, from my days in China as well as an article I read a while back. All Chinese people in any area know who belongs to the communist party and who doesn't. In some areas, party members wear little Chinese flag pins of a certain look on their lapel to let others know that they are in "the club". There is a real problem if someone organizes a friendly pick-up basketball game or some other competitive event. Everyone has to understand who the most important party member in the group playing is, or who the most important relative of the person playing is. The most important person cannot be allowed to lose the game. The other team must let them win no matter what. Sometimes a westerner joins one of these games without knowing the "cardinal rule", and his own teammates wind up tackling him before he makes a game-winning basket. It sounds crazy, but its true.

 

Don't worry, if that happens Americans will be able to rationalize arming and/or aiding whatever resistance emerges and get the same feels of bleeding Russia to serve the interests of the US empire. Its not terrorism when its our proxies doing it.

 

I doubt it. If the U.S. continues supplying weapons to Ukraine, assuming that Ukraine does lose the war, it will have to be through the CIA. And I don't know if the CIA even does that anymore. Right now, we are supplying weapons to an internationally recognized government, so we can do that openly, and in billion dollar quantities. The CIA would only be able to supply small weapons that are smuggled into the country. No more F-16's, no more Abrams tanks or Bradley fighting vehicles, no more HIMARS and artillery. And the CIA agents would be facing a likely death penalty if they got caught.

 

so were you injured when they tackled you?

 

I'm pretty sure the CIA almost exclusively exists to run guns and drugs to fund various activities. Resistance groups dont need F-16s or tanks. They need small arms, explosives and handheld missiles. But if Ukraine isn't important enough to fund anti-Russian resistance/terrorism within its borders and all the risks that come with it, then why is it so important to send them even more expensive military hardware at the risk of an actual regional war? I'm sure neocons would salivate at the chance to have a Christian Chechnya in a low grade civil war within their orbit if it came to that.