Will Richard: 2024-2025

All these guys are far better athletes than me, and 3-4 minutes would make zero difference to me. If you have cardio, you have cardio. Just like a jump shot or a high vertical, cardio is a tool in a players bag or that varies from person to person. It would only be an issue if they are out of shape.

 

I don't know yet what position suits him best, but his sophomore jump will probably sort him. Like the Hogwarts sorting hat. I don't see him in any way resembling Matt Bonner, though.

 

I definitely know what you mean on a personal experience level, but I think there is always going to be a problem when trying to convert a continuous measure (minutes) into a categorical one (no vs some difference). Eg if 4 min makes no difference, then 34 min is indeed no different than 30 min. And 38 min would be no different than 34 minutes. Therefore, 38 minutes would be no different than 30 minutes. Even if it is difficult to sense internally, I’m guessing there is some effect on performance of these differences in playing time, but it is an empirical question.

 

I understand what you are saying and I agree. My only caveat is that I think that even a full 40 minutes is pretty doable for most of these guys. Play style comes into the equation here, but unless you are a balls to the wall constantly sprinting player and you don’t have the fitness for it, I think there are enough stops and breaks, plus halftime in basketball that you can play a whole game and not lose much performance. I tend to play better the more minutes I get. Most players hate sitting… especially young ones.

 

To give the team different looks, different lineups, run different offense, get a spark, get better rebounders in, defensive matchups, if a guy is shooting poorly, turning it over, not hustling, etc… And yes even if they get tired. I’m not contradicting myself when I say that. Guys can and do get tired, but I don’t think 30 minutes is a significant difference to 34 minutes. You can give a guy a minute or two break and that is enough to catch their breath back. They sit longer than 30 seconds at a time for the reasons I said above.

 

If he has grown to 6’10” and gathered more muscle and weight, then a very capable player due to his size, defense/rebounding and if he gets his shooting consistent like Bonner did, he could possibly be better in the long run. I was a big Bonner fan and now this kid has come along wanting to be a great Gator and help get us Championships. We were close to a SEC Championship. That says right there, as a key piece to last years team, that he has come to fulfill his dreams with the team I will follow, till I’m gone! When he finally leaves for Professional basketball, we can compare and see what the stats tell us in comparison. Keep the faith….

 

I don't think it's about total minutes, it's about consecutive minutes at a high pace. Heck, Olympics athletes are toast after the 100m finals at FULL GO.

If the pace is high, no human can sustain a "red-line" pace AND be effective. You need a breather to recover.

Ya'll remember when Billy's team GASSED out J Williams from Duke? It wasn't about total minutes, it was about keeping him "red-lined" for a long time.....then he was DONE.

Endurance athletes know this as "bonking" (similar concept)....Once you bonk, you don't quite recover in the moment.

Another analogy for us sports fans....UFC fights. Once these guys hit that relentless pace, the 1 minute in between rounds is sometimes not enough, and they have to let off the gas during the fight. And even when they let off the gas, there is far less power behind their punches rounds 4-5.

Every human body has its limits, and the limit is all about the red-line threshold, and not "total minutes" (in a 40 minute basketball game).

 

Bonking is running out of glycogen. I did it once on a 100 mile bike ride and it is no joke. It is a long recovery. Depending on how badly you bonk it can take days to recover.

In bike racing you often hear about racers "burning matches". That is going over the functional threshold (a power output you can maintain for a long time. Technically it is for one hour.) by a fair amount. Do it too many times in a short span and you "crack". That is why there are multiple attacks on a rider. Not the same as bonking. One can recover from "cracking" in a race but by then your race is over. And you will be fine the next day. One of my training rides for bike racing that I would do only once a week was to go well over functional threshold for five minutes, recover for one, and repeat for a total of six reps. The first one felt great. The last one gave me exercised induced Tourette's Syndrome. It was always a slow ride home.

I think that we cracked him.

A common strategy in a breakaway where one person is what we call a passenger not doing any work at the front is to "take out the garbage". The passenger typically is tail gunning and the rider in front of him slows down opening up a gap. Then it is work to close the gap to the group. Then a different rider does the same thing. Lather, rinse, repeat. Eventually they crack or they get the message and start working in the group.

 

Yup, you're right...there is a difference between the two. I have felt both before a few times. lol

I was an avid cyclist for a while. Which 100 did you do? I did the 6 Gap Century in Dahlonega, and bonked bad...took me days to recover like you said.

 

I don’t think you can really compare an endurance sport like running long distance to basketball. As an avid long distance runner, former 800 meter track athlete, and a basketball player, they are completely different.

Basketball has a lot of breaks and rest. You run up and down in transition, but a lot of times you slow down to run sets, shoot free throws, inbound the ball, etc… it’s nothing like a sustained all out run. A basketball court is relatively short, and you are rarely sprinting the whole distance of the court. When you look at a guy like Steph Curry who wears opponents down with cardio, it’s not even by heavy sprinting… it’s by constant jogging movement and mental games. He just doesn’t let you rest.

UFC is also not a good comparison because all out fighting is hard to do for even 30 seconds. It takes mental preparation.

Simply put 40 minutes of basketball isn’t going to make you red line unless you are out of shape.

I would also disagree that 100 m runners are toast after one run. Yes, they are fatigued, but not toast. I’d say 400m and above are the ones that cause you to be toast.

 

Bonked on my first century ride. Early 1980's Horse Farm 100. I did all my training for it in the 60 to 70 mile range and didn't eat during the rides. Some where around 85 miles in I ran out of fuel. It took me about 2 hours to ride the last 15 miles.

I never did the official 6 Gap ride but a buddy and I went up there and rode all 6 gaps in one day. Beautiful area to ride. Wolfpen is so beautiful you forget that you are going uphill.

 

Your previous post said that players DO get tired sometimes. I am curious under what circumstances that might happen in your eyes.

 

Well, tired isn’t exactly the same as “toast”, “red lined”, “done” or “gassed”… which is what you said. It’s also nowhere near “bonked”, which Lurker was discussing with relation to biking. I think that’s what I took issue with. A conditioned basketball player should not be getting so fatigued during a game that any of these things happen. Perhaps they might need to jog for a play or two to catch their breath. If you aren’t in shape… well that’s a whole different situation. You can get gassed in 30 seconds if you aren’t fit.

My point is that any of our guards… should be able to handle minutes in the high 30’s with no problem. I mean… at absolute maximum they are playing 20 minutes straight assuming zero out of bounds plays, zero time outs, zero free kicks throws, zero fouls, and zero turnovers. Point guards look at their teammates and if they see them huffing and puffing, they slow it down.

Guys rarely want to come off the court. A full 40 minutes is nothing.

 

One thing we haven't talked about is cramping. Sometimes when playing hard it is difficult to stay hydrated.

 

Exactly, two examples of red-lining. They need to take some time to recover. Sometimes that's jogging a few possessions....Sometimes the TV timeout is more than enough...some FT's is a nice break too....but sometimes they need to be pulled, which you said so yourself earlier.

 

I don’t see why we should be talking about cramping. It’s a rare and easily preventable condition in basketball if you simply drink enough fluids.

 

What are we even arguing about? I don’t get what purpose this quibbling is serving. I said that high 30 minutes is not an issue for a conditioned player. You guys are in here talking about bonking, red-lining, and all this stuff that is not relevant. Jogging on a play or two happens all the time and a player doesn’t necessarily get pulled for that. If breathing hard or jogging for a few seconds is red-lining then I misunderstood what you meant by that term. I never heard it used before in the context of sports.

 

When I was in high school, I played football all four years. Sometimes after a game, I'd wake up in the middle of the night with screaming leg cramps. Which is odd, because games were never as tiring as practices. I guess it was because of hydration or lack thereof. And drinking Cokes after the game.