Question for Trump supporters

Mostly because she's sketchy. I hate Trump, but still wouldn't take back my vote for him in 2016 (though I'm not as strong on that post Ukraine). We'd be so behind the ball on China if she had won, as we all know who pulls her strings.

 

I agree, but people also don't trust the media, regardless of neutrality. Im sure if we dug down deep we could find biases in that middle column. Now more than ever, AI plays a huge part in our perception of information. 10 years ago your argument and parameters works well. Its a different world. You have to find common ground personally and then go from there. Find out why they personally want Trump and take them at face value and have a FRIENDLY conversation. Not condescending.. Not arrogant. Not prefacing a whole thread basically calling people all kinds of negative things before even starting the thread and expecting these people to respond in the hopes they aren't wasting their time.

FWIW, Im not saying you specifically are doing this, just an observation. This is a matter of survival for a lot of people. Sources, media, news, corruption, lies... some people don't give two f's about it and they just want to feed their families. Why do we have to marginalize these people? Again, not you.. just a general question to a lot of people on that side.

 

Kamala suppressed evidence that eventually got an innocent man off death row.

Kamala.announced that Ukraine would become a member of NATO, violating one of Russia's 3 red lines. The next day RUSSIA INVADED
1 MILLION PLUS DEAD.

Let's put Trump's morality in context. Trump is imperfect, Kamala slept her way to the top, she is heartless, ruthless dumb and mean.

Signed: MAGA

 

Trump is everything we learned not to be in a civilized society, and no sane person would want somebody like Trump in their personal sphere..

What they like about him is actually that he is a clinical sociopath and therefore has no shame or conscience, and doesn’t abide by the rules of the rest of us..

 

Thanks as always for keeping us in the loop on the Kremlin talking points!

 

This makes no sense.

First of all, the world is ass backwards right now anyway. Just check out whos making the most money and for what. Hawk tuah girl is becoming a millionaire as we speak. For what? People like a specticle these days. They like him because they thought the country ran better (IE they had more money) than when Biden was in office. In certain places they see crime running rampant when they might not have seen it with Trump. Not to say its because of Trump or Biden, thats how they see it.

You guys continue to marginalize a whole group of millions and expect to gain ground. It's bizarre considering that the left claims to be intellectually superior. They can't figure out the simple fact is that its mostly how you all act towards other people that pushes more division than anything else. Feel free to disregard all of this because you know better than I do though, thats how it usually goes. That got you Trump in the first place. Its about to get you another round.

 

Tea party was quirky.
Extreme maga is off the rails.

And I think Kamala will be a dreadful potus. Why would love her?

 

HRC labeled HALF of MAGA as a basket of deplorables, let's be accurate in quoting her. So, your proudboys, white supremacists and the like.

It was the fake email scandal and Comey handling of it that ensured HRC would lose the (ludicrous) electoral college.

 

Between the tea bags on the head and the bandages on the ear, you got the same sense of pageantry though

 

I don’t have enough energy to apply the number of “come on man’s” the posts in this thread deserves. What a funny read. You righties crack me up.

Here is what I read:

• Trump likes low prices but i have no idea how he’ll do it
• Trump likes lower gas prices but i have no idea how he’ll do it
• Hillary called people I like Deplorable and I am mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore
• Trump is for lower deficits even though they increased every year he was in office
• Trump is for border security even though in 4 years the only thing that lowered crossings was Covid but he talked a good game even said Mexico would pay for it
• I like the people Trump talks good about and call that patriotic, traditional values, true Americans and I also love the people he talks poorly about who are different than my idea of an American.
• Trump is for the working class especially their right to be free from organizing, the right for lower wages, and the right to be slaves to corporations
• I want to secede leadership in the world to Russia and China using isolationism
• The environment is immune from anything and everything that we can do to it so we should be free to do anything and everything for convenience.
• Trump want to cut taxes for me even though middle class tax cuts expire and top tier cuts, corporate cuts, foreign income, and AMT reductions are permanent

It is a very tempting argument to support Trump.

 

He will do it ALL.

...by making Mexico pay for it.

 

Give them some credit, he's going to lower grocery price inflation by doing mass deportations of much of our agricultural labor force

 

This is a typical too hot thread which we all knew it would be......Starts with a title Question for Trump supporters. It evolves into what we all knew it was about, another opportunity to bash Trump. It was never really about a question for Trump supporters.

 

What a provocative and potentially constructive question to ask. I sincerely applaud the attempt. It's a shame it is directed toward GC's gang that can't shoot straight.

I have read the responses twice have not found one that appears honest. Where is the animus toward marginalized groups? Where is the value in strict obedience to authority? Where is the fear of a changing world and other existential threats? Where is the resentment politics? These are the drivers of his appeal as determined by studies.

Either we have the largest herd of trump supporting unicorns or people are fearful or too self-unaware to respond honestly.

How anyone can support a man that tried to overturn an election through fraud and violence is beyond me.

 

I do NOT disagree with you on this. However I can remember when DJT was calling for crooked Hillary to be investigated many left leaning posters on this site called it an atrocity that undermined our democracy. It was unfathomable to consider someone using the justice system to undermine their political opponent.
But now?
“Well.. DJT is clearly guilty so it’s ok but when it was our gal.. I mean..of course she was innocent and he was being mean and being a threat to democracy.”

 

I didn’t respond until the argument was flushed out for 9 pages. How many more is needed until a cognitive argument is developed? I’ll check in on page 18 I guess.

 

You DO see a difference between Trump publicly firing up the crowds with his un-American "lock her up" vitriol, and........ Biden doing nothing of the sort?

There are perhaps a half dozen DIFFERENT jurisdictions that have legally determined that Trump, or his supporters, should be charged for potential crimes. Almost all have also involved a grand jury. And this was done absent the public hate-mongering we saw from Trump.

Your comparison of an un-American demagogue to ...... various segments of the justice system working as they should requires being disputed.

 

I am going to push back on your thesis here. As I have said before, I have voted for Trump in the past. So, I have had a lot of conversations with Trump voters, who are probably willing to be more open with someone like me than they would be open with someone who has not voted for Trump. I have also worked amongst the rural area voting population during the rise of Trump.

I don't think @ETGator1 was wrong in the Tea Party MAGA connection. There was an anti-Obama movement/anti-Democrat movement before Trump was ever on the political scene. Trump/MAGA is very much an anti-Obama, anti-Biden, anti-Democrat platform. You could even argue it is somewhat anti-Bush as well. If you watched the Republican National Convention you can see that. It was as much about Biden as it was about Trump. In 2016, Trump got elected largely because of the whiplash to 8 years of Obama, but that does not explain the rise of Trump entirely. There is a lot more to it than that.

The question we have to ask is "Why did the opposition to Obama/Biden/the Democrats coalesce around Trump rather than Romney, Kasich, McCain, Rubio, Cruz, Carson, Haley, DeSantis, Scott, Ryan, etc?

There was a poster up thread who proposed rank choice voting. Ranked choice voting would blow up the two-party system as we know it, but it also could have prevented a Trump nomination in 2016 if it was implemented at the primary level as well.

The 2016 primary became a Trump vs. anti-Trump primary and the anti-Trump voters were fractured and never got behind one candidate. That has been the problem since 2016. Parties were formed to solve this problem of fracturing in the general election so that one candidate could be put forward who shares the values of the party. Trump essentially formed a sub-party within the Republican party, and then the opposition to him has not organized into a sub-party uniting behind one candidate to defeat him. I think Trump understands this. DeSantis was probably the biggest threat to fracture the Trump voting block into two groups, but DeSantis did not prevail. I think Trump publicly attacked DeSantis because he knew DeSantis was his biggest threat to securing the 2024 Republican nomination. That is what I see the issue as: Trump has formed a powerful sub-party within the RNC united behind one person, and those that oppose him within the party are too fractured to do anything about it. Combine that with the fact that most people who vote Republican believe the opportunity cost of losing the nomination to the Democrats is not an option...that is how Trump has formed the powerful voting coalition that backs him.

In 2020, people voted for Trump in the primary because Trump had a 3.5 year track record of good policies prior to COVID, and COVID would have wrecked the economy for any President. People remember the good policy years under Trump, especially in contrast to Biden. The difference between now and 2016 is the anti-Obama/anti-Democrat/obliterate the establishment narrative has now been fed steroids after 8 years of prosecuting and investigating Trump, watching Biden/DNC incompetency on the international stage, watching a very obvious and intentional conspiracy to flood the country with illegal immigrants, treat them like royalty on the government dime, and make them part of the US voting block.

Now, I am getting to the meat of my disagreement with your post. We are really talking about what I consider to be a large plurality of Republican voters who powered Trump to the Republican nomination in 2016. Winning the 2016 nomination and having 3.5 years of good competent policy has given him inertia that still lasts to this day.

Why did this large plurality vote for him at the primary level in 2016? That is the most important question IMO. Their motivations and reasons for voting for Trump in the Republican primary in 2016 are the genesis of this problem. The moral majority never would have gotten behind Trump at least based on what we knew of him in the 2016 Republican primary.

I think there were a couple of factors. There was whiplash not only against Obama, but also John McCain, Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, Lindsey Graham, etc. I think the mistake people make in their analysis is they think RINO found its genesis in Trump. There was a cultural moment where many Republican voters felt betrayed by the establishment Republicans. RINO as a term came into existence because Republican politicians were seen as weak and compromising. You can still see that conflict play out right here on this board to this day actually. Go look at this thread. How many people do you think would agree that 60% of this message board leans to the right? I personally laughed when I saw the proportion of people who identified as leaning right in that poll. I am not doubting that they identify that way, but it shows that there are widely diverging conceptions of what it means to be right. There is no consensus on what that even means anymore.

In 2016 during the primaries there were still lingering doubts about the abortion issue wrt Trump. There were a lot of questions, and Trump had not crystalized his stance on abortion at that point. So, the people who put him over the top in the 2016 primaries were the people willing to overlook the moral issues and put him through as an anti-establishment candidate who would do well with the economy due to his experience in the business world. They did not believe any other person in the field could do the job because he was the only candidate like that. That was the mindset of people who voted for Trump in the 2016 primaries. They tabled the concerns over moral issues for what they considered to be superior competency for the job. It was the number of voters who tabled the moral issues that led to Trump winning the primary in 2016.

There is also this: The MSM did not put the spotlight on the worst of what we knew about Trump's sexual infidelity until after Trump secured the nomination at the top of ticket in 2016. By then we were already locked into a binary decision between Trump and Hillary. If the MSM and DNC bedfellows wanted another name at the top of the ticket they should have shouted that from the rooftops before Trump secured the nomination at the top of the Republican ticket in 2016.

The good news is in 2028 it will have been 20 years since an establishment Republican has held the White House. John McCain, Mitch McConnel, John Boehner, Lindsey Graham, etc will be a distant forgotten memory. The anti-establishment movement will probably run out of gas I would imagine because Trump is the Republican establishment now. It will be a far gone and far forgotten moment in time with a much more recent political climate shaping how voters think in 2028. 2028 will be a good opportunity to move forward, but the same issue still lingers. Republicans could once again table moral issues and moral concerns for what they consider to be superior competency for the job.

The issue IMO is the conservative voting block in America is less religious than they used to be. Moral issues matter less than they used to. When people beat the "separation of church and state" drum over and over again but really meant "religious conservatives in America need to table their moral convictions in the voting booth" some people actually listened and did what you asked. And now there is an alarmism about democracy coming to an end now that it has happened.

The truth is Christian moral foundations have been a blessing on this nation in far more ways than people recognize. The more and more we depart from those foundations the worse it is going to get.

 

Tylsi Gabbard brought it up in 2020

If it's true it's Russian propaganda evidently