War in Ukraine

The leaving of Ukraine -- yes, all of Ukraine -- should not be a point of negotiation. That needs to be a precondition for conflict resolution, as you suggest. But I think the reparations you would like to see in a perfect world just are not realistic. Like it or not, we in the West are paying for the reconstruction of Ukraine, and it is in our interest to do so.

 

I remember those days. It will get old for you, too.

 

When they chatter back and forth, about me, from their holes.

 

Has WWIII begun or is it about to begin ?

The US is preparing for WWIII while expanding draft registration - Pearls and Irritations

 

SK isn’t wasting time.

 

Let's fast forward a year or 2. Let's say Doh! Biden wins relection. Status quo holds, same plan, same trajectory...

Ukraine collapses. Russia assumes control of ALL of Ukraine.

Better, or worse, than if Russia stays only with the sliver (roughly half the width of the FL peninsula) it has managed to gain control of, with its costly invasion?

War is ugly. Often times, it ends without a clear winner.

....but there's always a shit pile of losers no matter what, and as it stands, Ukraine is in a lose entirely or not as much state. Even if they 'win', and push Russia back into Russia, they've lost 1/2 their population to emigration (most of whom will never return) and probably a couple million dead.

Russia has also lost a shit pile for that sliver, especially in terms of international clout, standing, and military respect.

Imho, it is in every one's interest to negotiate a resolution here. I just dont think "scorch the earth" with Ukraine, is a productive play here--yet that appears to be the strategy.

What's more, for all the comps to hitler and WW II, I would submit that the more compelling historical predence to take note of would more likely be the Weimar republic. A destabilized Russia would pose a far greater threat to world peace, than Putin's antiquated war machine.

Uraine is a useful buffer bt NATO and Russia, which stands far more likely to dissappear, than to ever be fully restored.

All the while, there's a peace there chomping at the bit begging to be negotiated

Jmho/fwiw.

 

I was in the ROK with my War College class back in April (first time I had ever been in my career), and this topic came up at a couple of our engagements. I'm glad to see the idea translated into action.

 

More ball bearings rattling around in an empty barrel.

 

Interesting video. A ship by ship history of the destruction of Russian ships since day 1 of the war.

 

What kind of moron recommends Ukraine work out a peace agreement with a country that signed a written agreement to provide security assurances to Ukraine as an inducement to give up its nuclear weapons?

Maybe if Putin pinky swears? Put language in the peace agreement that Putin really, really means it?

At some point even Charlie Brown will stop trying to kick the football.

 

...because any thought that fails to echo the approved orthodoxy of da snowglobe is unwelcome *noise*....

LMAO!

Shake those pom poms! In sync baby!

 

The war hawks are damn sure praying for it!

It's good bidniz, long as it ain't your blood flowing...

 

Very poor logic on your part. Obviously, Ukraine values its freedom very much and is willing to fight for it, even if it costs them tens of thousands of lives, which it has and will. You would understand that if you had any knowledge of the history of the United States. Americans once upon a time had to fight for their freedom. And I'm sure that if you asked George Washington if it was worth it, he would tell you it was. You should try reading a history book. Maybe start at a fourth grade level, and see where it leads from there.

"Scorch the earth" is not Ukraine's strategy, nor is it Biden's strategy. Ukraine and the U.S. and Europe are trying to get Russia removed from Ukraine. Scorch the earth might be Putin's policy, but that would not be a smart or effective policy, as long as the west is supporting Ukraine. Biden seems to be slow-playing some of the donations so as to give Ukraine the minimum to defeat Russia, but other than that, he's doing the right thing.

As far as a destabilized Russia being a threat to world peace, look no further than the decade called the "1990's". Maybe you've heard of it? Russia was defeated by Afghanistan, and their economy collapsed. The only major threat to world peace in the 1990's was Iraq with its invasion of Kuwait and attempt to steal its oil. And Iraq was only a threat because it had a large collection of Russian tanks it had bought in the 1980's. Guess which country had trouble making and selling tanks with a collapsed economy? Yep, Russia. Did Poland or any other European country in the 1990's rise up and start invading neighbors? By what twisted logic would you think that a destabilized Russia poses a "far greater threat to world peace"? We already know that a stabilized Russia, selling weapons to every rogue state on earth and eyeballing its neighbors greedily, poses a huge threat to world peace. We also know that the U.S. reduced defense spending by $2.5 trillion (in 2023 dollars) during the decade of the 90's, so the U.S. government disagrees with your foolish assertion (we don't reduce defense spending when the threat to world peace goes UP). Try to remember which century you are in. This is not the 1920's. Times change, and threats change. There was a time that European countries were the leaders in taking over other countries and building empires, but that time is over. Now the main empire builders and threats for invading other countries are Russia and China.

As far as Ukrainians not wanting to return to Ukraine if and when Ukraine wins the war, I believe you are wrong about that. The country will be rebuilding for years after the war, and western countries will be pouring in money. There will be millions of jobs available, and the pay will be high because of the scarcity of workers. Ukrainians could continue to live in the west, struggling with the culture, the language, the food, and low-paying jobs (or welfare) for the most part, or go home to a high-paying job and live much better in their home towns. It's a no-brainer. Most Ukrainians will go home.

Peace will be negotiated AFTER Russia is pushed out of Ukraine.

 

Would require third-party (i.e. NATO) guarantees as a forcing function, because you’re right. All of Ukraine is Putin’s strategic objective. Just like when Russia negotiated a ceasefire in Chechnya in the mid-1990s. They never stopped preparing to go back in, and they did at the first opportunity.

 

Your basic premise is up for debate though, that of "Obviously, Ukraine values its freedom very much and is willing to fight for it, even if it costs them tens of thousands of lives, which it has and will."

The millions who've run away to other countries and the countless others dodging draft suggest otherwise. There's also no way for them to collectively voice their opinions because elections are suspended.

As for your comment re: American history, what about the native Americans? Was fighting for their freedom was worth it? Were the native Hawaiians' fight for their freedom worth it?

 

Yeah, we've seen a stabilized Russia impotently seeking to stick its pecker in everyone else's bidniz....and demonstrate its impotence. A known inconvenience we've negotiated with ease.

We have not had the pleasure of experiencing a fragmented Russian NON- Federation of multiple hostile, independent, soverign, nuclear armed states. By the grace of God.

(Careful what you wish for...).

As for Ukraine--that's quite an optimistic view you're harboring.

A country devastated by war, that took the extraordinary event of war to prompt ppl to take flight and uproot, ppl are going to magically uproot again, to come back... Sure.

....and in the wake of the devastation of war, with so much debt, the economy is going to explode back to life--in the wake of so much destruction, and in the wake of an epic brain drain... bc 'the West'--which under the very pressing urgency of war/invasion threat had to have their nuts twisted to contribute military goodies--would then, graciously and gratuitously spend spend spend and contribute generously until it hurt....AFTER the threat has been neutralized...

And all of this presupposing continued economic stability, and no major economic adversity to 'the West.'

You must be a unicorn rancher.

But hey, if things work out according to you rainbow wet dreams, I can assure you this much--I would not bitch or complain. In fact, I would sincerely tip my hat to you, and acknowledge some extraordinary prescience against historical expectations on your part (but I damn sure wouldn't bank on it).

 

For all the talk about Ukrainians fighting for their freedom, the Russians are ten times as motivated …

 

America has had its Teutoburg Forest moment

Ruling Class Finally Awakens to the Reality of America's Decline

 

"Look at those cowardly pussies!"

/s/keyboard warriors across Europe, and our own fruited plain, from the comfort of their cozy air conditioned homes, bt fresh, hot cooked meals...