Netanyahu tells Israel ‘We are at war’ after Hamas launches an unprecedented attack, killing at leas

It was a predicate to the post. I was insulting nobody here.

 

I don’t wanna hijack the thread, but we have to be careful not to romanticize the “noble savage.” American Indians had plenty of wars over land before the Europeans arrived.

 

Maybe you can go to a protest and show them your videos. Might be more effective way of reaching the people you say you were directing that too.

 

I’m sure, using your literalism, that I can run to the protest and show each person my phone. Great idea.

Meanwhile, you should go to the funeral in Israel of the soldier that died in the rescue, and show them your posts here. Might be more effective way for you to reach the people who you direct your ire.

 

My ire is with Americans who support Zionism and the government of Israel to the detriment of my country, not random Israeli citizens who have no bearing on American politics. I am directing my posts to the correct parties, thanks.

 

Appreciate the post.
Let's define the "Humans" of which you speak, - Western Imperalists and Capatalists whom normalized canon and lead shot as a legit form of property acquisition from the 15th century to the present.

Interestingly Americans don't feel comfortable with historical facts.
Such as the overwhelming racism and greed that were the primary drivers for
most of the aquired lands of North, Central and South America, by Europeans, with all the pretty yet non-existant physical political boundary markers found on maps.

I no longer consider "European Heritage" to be something to bragg about. Quite the opposite for me. Many might think Americans are the most ideologically evolved tribe on the planet. As we approach an election that would place a person such as DJT in charge, I think a reevaluation may be in order.

 

No hijack, indigenous peoples had plenty of well documented shortcomings. But remember, you are posting from the perspective of the cultural and ideological winner of the violence wars.

 

If Israel one day succeeds in wiping out the Palestinians or even completely expelling them from their own land, they will one day romanticize them too.

 

Wg, interesting but painful thread.

My last post on the topic but to clarify a few points:

1) I find the Palestinian, Israeli conflict shattering and soul shaking. For me, it's a disturbing example of just how bad things may get between "tribes".

2) I have never lost sight of this point which of course is arguable:

Hamas and it's like minded ideological twins in the middle east have consistently said: Death to all Jews, no interest in cooperation.

Unless I am misinformed this is the clarion call not only of the political organization but the majority of persons living under this tribal umbrella.

Israel, by comparison, has about 50% of its voting population somewhat amenable to having a cautious relationship with Palestinians. Regrettably it's the 50% driven by religous inculcation, currently in power, that have created the environment that inevitably led to the October catastrophe.

I don't trust dictators or Islamic extremist ideology. Having said that, I find the current Bibi coalition disgusting.

Given a choice between bad and worse, I will continue to support Israel, grudgingly, in this disaster.

 

Again, by framing this as "tribalism" you are putting yourself in the same camp as the Israeli government, fascists, barbarians, etc. This is very destructive IMO. It doesnt do our own politics any service when people frame our own disagreements here as "tribalism." We will simply confirm our own biases again and again, and will just shrug at how this is the way things always were and will be. Historical materialism is the way, everything else leads down the path you lay out.

 

I have followed this conflict for close to 50 years. There have been times when Israel was willing to trade land for peace. I don’t think Netanyahu is willing to do that. I think he wants this war to continue because he is finished politically and perhaps criminally after this. There are no easy paths to peace here. My heart goes out to the children on both sides.

 

So if I repalce "tribes" with "Political Power Base" or "Gov't" or "Ideology" you find what I posted more palatable?

 

Yes, those things suggest temporal political differences that can be overcome, not timeless/permanent innate/biological/kinship-driven antagonisms that will always divide people no matter what. One suggests things can change, the other doesnt.

 

I can "somewhat" appreciate that and will refrain from "tribe" going forward. I respect your point.

 

Overkill, but fyi - I'm pretty deep into studying Neolithic and Bronze Age settlement development and archeological site work right now and my brain thinks
of all human civilization emerging as seperate "tribes" or "city states".

Ok I beat it to death - next!

 

Yes, I seem to recall reading that those who later came to be known as "Native Americans" practiced slavery long before Europeans arrived in the "new world". Oh wait .... this must have been Russian disinformation as it just can't be true.

But this is O/T with regard to Hamas starting a war with Israel.

 

Just take a look at a world map, and watch how quickly it transforms over the years. Blood spilled over arbitrary lines. Imagine there are no lines.

 

LOL at people who think we elect our leaders …

 

Man, you go WAY over the top with your rabid defense of this military action in Israel.

There's no need to nitpick you over whether there are some people, very few in the USA probably, who profess their support for Hamas. But that's not the majority, and not really the reality.

The reality is that people opposed to Israel's military response are every bit as rational and clear-eyed as you are. Maybe moreso. There's nothing wrong with asserting that Israel apparently has no endgame, and a far too low aversion to civilian death and human suffering.

But you're about a skip and a jump from calling people terrorist supporters. Just look at your quoted post. To reverse things, it's like someone saying to you : "Why don't you go explain yourself at the funeral of a dead Palestinian baby! Let THEM know why their kid's death is so acceptable!!"

Jesus, be better. Don't be like that Skippy, Sport guy.

 

Once again keeping in mind with the motivation of Israel's adversary in Gaza.
Hamas's Sinwar said to laud high civilian death toll as "necessary sacrifice" in Gaza
Said in several other posts in this thread, Hamas values martyrdom and civilians especially women and children make much better martyrs than fighters and Sinwar's statements confirm what has already been obvious.

Hamas chief Yahya Sinwar has insisted that civilian bloodshed in Gaza is a necessary sacrifice that will lead to the liberation of Palestine, according to a report published late Monday, bolstering accusations that the terror group has intentionally put its people in harm’s way over the last eight months of devastating war in Gaza.

In dozens of messages sent over several months and acquired by The Wall Street Journal, Sinwar communicated to Hamas compatriots and mediating parties alike that he had no interest in pursuing a ceasefire with Israel, as he believed that the growing civilian death toll would serve to benefit Hamas more than a cessation of fighting would.​