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Italian Surplus Profits Tax

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by G8trGr8t, Aug 9, 2023.

  1. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    European banks hit today by Italy 40% tax on excess profits generated by the variable interest loans that dominate their real estate market. Hopefully this doesn't ripple and create a banking crisis in Europe. Law of unintended consequences et al

    Italy is following Spain's lead here

    Bank shares plummet after govt's windfall-tax surprise (msn.com)

    The share prices of Italian banks plummeted on Tuesday after the government announced on Monday that it was imposing a 40% windfall tax on lenders' surplus profits. Italy's banks registered big profits in the first half of the year, with revenues boosted as a result of the European Central Bank's interest-rate hikes.

    Among other things, this has caused payments on variable-rate mortgages to soar. The tax will be paid in 2024 on the surplus profits of 2023. Deputy Premier and Transport Minister Matteo Salvini said Monday that the money raised by the windfall tax would be used to help households and businesses cope with higher interest rates.

    The slump in bank stocks saw the Milan bourse's FTSE Mib index drop over 2%, with around 27.7 billion euros in capitalization going up in smoke, including around 8.96 billion in bank stocks, after the markets were taken by surprise by the government's move. Bper Banca shed 10.9%, MPS 10.8%, Finecobank 9.9%, Banco Bpm 9%, Intesa Sanpaolo 8.67%, and Unicredit 5.9%.

    Italy's banks have not released a statement about the windfall tax, amid reports of irritation within the industry, especially because it came out of the blue. According to initial estimates, it should generate between 2.5 and 2.8 billion euros. Spain has already introduced a similar tax. It has generated 637 million euros so far, with the aim of taking that figure up to three billion over two years. (ANSA).
     
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  2. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Sounds like a bad idea…. When interest rates are high, it costs banks more to lend money if they are issuing bonds to pay for the loans… also they probably have higher default rates on variable loans. Taking away their “excess profits” could be very damaging. sounds like the stock market it getting this right.
     
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  3. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    i guess if they socialized the cost of the banking failures they are also socializing some of the profits
     
  4. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    I pretty much bank on Italy screwing the pooch every time.
     
  5. Trickster

    Trickster VIP Member

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    I wonder why there wasn’t this kind of reaction when Spain did it. Maybe their percentage was lower. While generally speaking I’m not against governments clawing back rapacious profits, 40% across the board is awfully high.
     
  6. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    It is a kind of a double kick in the ass. If inflation goes up, the value of the bank’s mortgage receivable goes down. It would make sense that the bank would draw more interest on a variable rate mortgage in a period of inflation. But then the government takes away their inflation compensation.
     
  7. ThePlayer

    ThePlayer VIP Member

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    Italy is a prefect place for union Joe Biden to move to....and ruin even further.
    You need a license to be a babysitter, yet you don't have to admit to all your grandkids.
     
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  8. docspor

    docspor GC Hall of Fame

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    tax rate aside, it is bad policy over time to have discretionary taxation like this. Take a farmer. Assume she has corn. She can eat it or plant it. She should know the tax rate on the crop at the time she makes the decision of how much to plant & how much to eat. If tax rates can be changed after the corn's in the ground, it will not lead to optimal investment or consumption. Discretionary monetary policy acts in a similar fashion vs. a rules based monetary system. You can fleece a sheep many times, but you can only skin it once.
     
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  9. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    Agreed, you can debate the merits of windfalls profits taxes, but to implement in such an arbitrary fashion is bad policy.
     
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  10. dave_the_thinker

    dave_the_thinker VIP Member

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    PIIGS gonna PIIGS.

    As an aside, if you are in Italy:
    The German banking system is the driver behind interest rates in the Eurozone and by extension your country. In their country, fixed rates are the norm, and homebuyers there curtail purchases when rates are high, allowing the bank freedom to leverage rates to keep inflation under control.

    Residential mortgage rate Germany 2023 | Statista

    Please do not choose a variable interest loan to finance your mortgage.

    Thank you.
     
  11. citygator

    citygator VIP Member

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    I am not following... If the loan costs and defaults are going up for banks they wont have "excess" profits. They apparently do because they are passing on more than just the costs to the consumers and making bank, excuse the expression. Happened in a lot of industries in the US which made inflation worse than it had to be but made companies rich. I dont know if the tax is a good idea but I think its because the banks are taking advantage of consumers in the short run.
     
  12. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    What are "excess profits"?
     
  13. demosthenes

    demosthenes Premium Member

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    Italy is trying to address the fact banks are charging much higher interest rates to borrowers than banks are providing interest to their account holders providing the funds the banks are lending. Basically the delta between the two, which always exists, grew substantially.

    Italy shocks banks with 40% windfall tax for 2023

    Is it a good idea? I don’t know - they’ve already taxed energy companies this year for similar reasons, and two other Euro countries have already taxed banks in this manner. But like @docspor says, capricious legislation will have negative effects.