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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    I don’t know what to tell you about Crimea. I can have any child look at a map of Russia and Ukraine, ask them what country is this peninsula a part of, and get mostly the same answer. I recognize that it’s a sticking point for both sides and a lot more killing is going to have to happen for it to get less sticky for one side. I will point this out, though. Ukrainian military victory is not outside the realm of possibility. And if that happens and they have to fight to clear Crimea et al of Russian forces, then there will not be a population of 90% ethnic Russians, there will not be an opportunity for them to keep their property and possessions in exchange for an oath of loyalty, there will not be protection of their civil liberties, and there will not be an amnesty for those who aided and comforted a foreign army of conquest. So …

    [​IMG]
     
  2. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Russia is going to have to show a great deal more success on the battlefield to get those kind of terms.
     
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  3. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Pretty reasonable, although I don’t see the reparations part happening. Money to rebuild Ukraine will likely come from the West.
     
  4. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Crimea was given to Ukraine as a gift in 1954 and then given autonomous status from Ukraine in 1991. So 37 years. If Crimea is a sticking point for NATO, then this is going to escalate a lot further.
     
  5. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    That's one way of putting it. Yet another way of putting it is that in 1954 the Soviet Union formally recognized an already well established and accepted fact that Crimea is indeed geographically part of Ukraine. The Russian successor state validated that Crimea was part of Ukraine in 1991 and again in 1994. I have no problem with Ukraine deciding to make Crimea an autonomous region. There is much precedence for that in many other countries. That's Ukraine's internal decision, but I think it could be part of a future negotiation. However, again, if they are able to and must retake it by force, re-establishment of any kind of autonomous region is going to be moot in terms of both desire and necessity. Finally, the sticking point is not with NATO; it's with Ukraine.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2023
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  6. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    So, Ukraine is going to re-take Crimea by force and strip their autonomy? I believe such a move would be NATO-inspired. I don’t see Ukraine making that move unilaterally. So I would still say the sticking point is with NATO. I believe Ukraine is okay to give up Crimea if it means security overall.
     
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  7. Sohogator

    Sohogator GC Hall of Fame

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  8. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

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    Ah, yes. I guess that explains why they don’t bend to Russia.
     
  9. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    So you'd have Putin pinky swear?

    Russia withdraws to the pre-2014 borders and returns ALL Ukrainian citizens.
    They get I-phones and Adidas back....a huge win for the Russian population.
     
  10. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    The adults are trying to have a conversation.
     
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  11. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    An interesting article comparing China and Russia's alliance to the German and Japanese alliance in WWII.

    Russia and China’s new alliance is beginning to echo December 1941

     
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  12. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Who makes those jogging suits you see all of the Russian gangsters and wannabes sporting?
     
  13. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Apart from an indicator that Russia is using munitions at a greater rate than it can produce them itself, I don’t see anything earth shattering here. We already knew China was Russia’s ally and does not want to see Russia humiliated too badly.
     
  14. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Because it’s so grown up to climb down in a hole and shut the lid because you don’t want to hear voices unlike your own.
     
  15. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Ukrainian forces like an overloaded beam ...

    Many analysts see Russia’s modest territorial gains as a sign it is losing. However in a war of attrition, if capturing and holding vast areas of land mars an army’s kill ratio, such moves can lead to defeat. The objective is to hold strong positions which maximize enemy deaths while sparing your own fighter’s lives. The strategic defensive is the ideal configuration. Historically Russian armies have retreated and traded land for attrition. In Ukraine both the Kharkov and Kherson retreats by Russia changed the battlefield to ensure better kill ratios for Russian forces.

    Quelling the Fire in Ukraine
     
  16. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Probably had nothing to do with Bolton issuing threats against ICC judges and their families were they to investigate US war crimes in Afghanistan.
     
  17. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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  18. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

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    Another episode of responding to a post with a retort bearing no connective tissue.
     
  19. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    No connection between earlier ominous threats and present actions ? In any case, the ruling on Putin is completely a gesticulation of impotent Western rage and completely irrelevant.