War in Ukraine

The 1980's called and they want their foreign policy back.

 

You’re missing a big part of this, and that’s how Putin is perceived at home and what he has already sacrificed just being where he is now.

I also doubt the US could convince Europe and the rest of the world to sanction Russia before they attack and us sanctions without world wide support are a waste of time. That’s one.

Two I doubt they’ve been able to get people to even agree on what sanctions they can live with in Europe. I assume that’s why we haven’t heard anything specific. Which is a bad sign but not surprising.

Three, if they did have some kind of severe sanctions now AND Putin didn’t do something other than tuck tail and run he would look very bad. There is no way he could not respond to that. He would almost be forced to do something.

Now you can continue hating on joe Biden I don’t care. He’s just another rich old white fricker screwing around in the White House.

How would you have handled it?

 

Well, I don't like Joe Biden (no secret), but I'm not sure what his race has to do with anything. I'm fully aware of how Putin is perceived at home. He still maintains some popularity, but there are way more dissenters than he would like to admit. And thank you for pointing out how feckless it is to threaten severe sanctions 10 times a day, when we both know there's discord between NATO as to what those sanctions would even look like.

You're making my point for me and that is Biden is just out there talking big to score politically, because his approvals are in the gutter, he knows the optics of Afghanistan looked horrible and he doesn't want to let this current issue slip without something to show for it. The problem is you can't deal with Russia out of political expediency. Biden also knows inflation is a big problem and that his approval ratings are going to continue to sag as long as that persists.

I don't think we even had this many speeches and threats in such a short period of time with Iraq in 2003 and we put 250,000 boots on the ground. There was a build up, the PR campaign, but it wasn't done like what we're seeing with Ukraine in such a small space of time and we're not even going to do anything about Ukraine. They'll sanction a few oligarchs if Putin invades. That's about it.

 

Are you going to offer up how you would have handled it? I mean I’m not saying you are for sure wrong about Biden’s motives but you are definitely not for sure right either.

And If you think I’m making your point for you you are confused. Or I’m confused. Because other than hating joe Biden I’m not sure what your point has been. That he should shut up? Lol.

i don’t think the us will struggle to have world wide support for tough sanctions if Russia invaded. Or at least, they won’t struggle as much as they would pre attack.

Now sure that doesn’t require non stop fear mongering. But if you consider for a moment how Russia has used false pretenses to justify war 2 times in recent history I can see why they think being very loud and very public about what they think will happen is a good idea.

but hey - Biden is a wreck right now numbers wise and the only other guy pushing this hard is Boris Johnson who is also a wreck. Most of the others dumbasses in charge are in diplomacy wait and see mode. So maybe it is just theatre. Can’t ever rule it out with the dumb shits who run western countries.

 

not all allies are equal. Intel is being shared with many of the allies.

 

Taking your points in order here, best I can:

How would I have handled it? I would have squashed Nord Stream 2, by now. Biden gave that back to Russia as a bone to Germany. It's a major revenue source for Russia, which Putin will use a large part of to beef up the Russian military even more. It is not pumping as of yet, but that is only because Trump kept Obama era sanctions on Russia in place. It's ready to go. I would have also worked with Boris Johnson to freeze some Russian oligarchs assets that are stashed in the UK. Billions in assets. This would turn up the pressure at home on Putin, as his billionaire fluffers would be less likely to fluff him when their assets are frozen. These are all pre-invasion ideas. There are many more severe sanctions we can look at post-invasion. As you've noted, Putin has already moved on Ukraine in the past. That opens the door to pre-invasion sanctions here, as the military mobilization is obvious to us all.

I do think we'll still struggle to come to an agreement on sanctions, even in the event of invasion, as Olaf Scholz won't even utter the words "Nord Stream 2" when the press asks him about it. Germany is a major player in NATO. You have other European nations that depend on Russian gas and some goods as well.. so don't expect broad, sweeping, severe sanctions if Russia invades.

Who's fear mongering? The guy going on national TV twice a week predicting imminent invasion? The guy who has his various members of his Administration predicting imminent invasion to the press corp hourly?

If you don't think politics plays into this, you're woefully mistaken. Johnson and UK will carry the US's water to whatever extent necessary. Same as they did with Iraq. The constant threats and warnings are coming out of Washington. London simply parrots.

On your last point, couldn't agree more. Like it or not, our intelligence failures over the past two decades are extremely difficult to overlook. As Americans, we should always hold our intelligence community accountable, no matter who the president is. They are ultimately who decides whether we go to war or not in many cases.

 

Lots of deranged Americans out there (and in here) still rooting for chaos to ensue in Eastern Europe so they can pounce on Biden.

 

Put Sanctions on Russia Now, Ukraine’s Leader Urges West

 

Please stop the ad hominem, as nobody here has suggested they want chaos to ensue in Eastern Europe.

 

It doesn't need to be said.

 

Not sure who you're referring to, but if taking the same position as the president of Ukraine is "wanting mass chaos to ensue in Eastern Europe", that's nothing more than an ad hominem attack.

 

If it isn't referring to you, then don't worry about it. If a hit dog hollers, however....

 

Please stop the ad hominem attacks.

 

Biden admin has been saying this for two weeks. They keep repeating the same stuff. If you google it, you'll see they've been saying it for weeks. (sorry if that's the point you were trying to make, but this isn't new)

 

Please stop being offended by something if it doesn't apply to you.

 

Who here in this thread is calling for mass chaos in Eastern Europe?

 

Oh, they know who they are.

 

Hold the intelligence community accountable for not being perfect?

 

Um, it's a little more than "not being perfect". It's "not being perfect" as American servicemen and women are killed, imprisoned and severely wounded. The IC works for us, not the other way around.