NYT Article on UF Expulsion of Jewish Student

Unthinkable? What about 20 years earlier? J6 was just rerunning the same playbook that already worked a few decades earlier, even some of the characters are the same, like Roger Stone.

Brooks Brothers riot - Wikipedia

 

Zero tolerance has “zero” for a reason. It’s too bad for her. Maybe she should have worn a Star of David or something to self identify.

 

"In 2023, the chief executive of the Anti-Defamation League, Jonathan Greenblatt, declared that “Zionism is fundamental to Judaism.” In 2021, Israeli cabinet minister Natan Sharansky co-wrote an essay calling Jews who oppose Zionism “un-Jews.”

Younger Jewish folks seeing the light and not blindly supporting Israel are being ostracized and labeled "un-Jews." What a load of crap. The ADL is a fascist group who believe that anyone questioning the omnipotent Israel is antisemetic.

 

Perhaps this riot is forerunner to J6, but I always viewed conservatives as uniquely valuing the sanctity of American symbolism, such as the flag, the anthem, and the Capitol building. It was more the left that wanted to defend burning the flag and kneeling during the anthem as speech, right? This is why I was, and still am, rather stunned at conservatives’ defense of J6. I think the right came to view the J6 mob as their people, and this tribal connection outweighed the sanctity of American symbols.

 

Why did you think that? I think by the time I was 20-21 I had learned that conservatives really didnt believe in much other than racism, Christian supremacy and rewarding the rich - and I grew up in a Republican household, registered as a Republican and went to church on Sundays. I think I really had to get into reading mainstream liberal media like the NYT to consider the idea that conservatives made good faith arguments of any kind or had actual principles. These arguments were made primarily by people with liberal values, even if they were on the right. I have to say, I think my 20 year old self was more right about conservatives than I was in my "sensible lib" phase, though GWB era leftism was pretty cringe.

 

We should never allow anyone to support Hamas on any campus... for any reason... because that is really what this is all about.

 

The Left used to be against bullying, and overtly oppressive organizations and their activities, such as demonstrations by the KKK, neo-Nazis, and such.

Now, so TDS inflicted and misguided, they approve of pro-terroism demonstrations that expressly target our Jewish (targeted minority) students, seeking to intimidate and shame them.

Our alma mater does not condone nor accept such oppressive behavior.

But our AM changed???

Lol! Nope.... it was yall who went flying off the rails...

UF is still UF.

Go Gators!

 

PS- there are plenty of other schools that coddle to pro-terrorist bullies.

Let the supporters of those bully causes find a home at one of those misguided instutions...

Let us continue to provide a proper place for Jewish kids (and all minorities) to pursue higher education in earnest, without being dogged for their minority status.

 

Uf has been very tough on protests since fall 2023. I fear for students every time they risk it now.

 

The girl in question is Jewish. It’s really something else we are calling a Jewish student a “Hamas sympathizer” or “anti-Semitic bully”.

Could it be possible she just doesn’t like military powers completely leveling cities???

 

Can you reference where in the article there's a mention of her supporting Hamas?

 

Another post from you not understanding there is a difference between Palestinians and Hamas.

 

Part of this likely depends on the language used (because, for some of the language regularly being used in these protests, the language is arguably endorsing anti-semitism and ethnic cleansing if taken literally, even if that was not the speaker’s intent).

There’s a difference between opposing the policies of the Israeli government and espousing the idea that Israel as a Jewish state should not exist. And, while it may be catchy for young folks who want to stand with the oppressed and never gave any thought to what they are chanting, “from the river to the sea” falls squarely into the latter camp if you stop to give even a few seconds of thought to what that phrase literally means.

 

If we can agree that the group that contains "those who wish to support Hamas" is not the same group that contains "those who criticize Israel as a political entity" then we can recognize that we are not referencing the same things. If we can't agree to that, then there's another discussion to be had.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

I admit I sided with the administration initially, but as I spent more time on the Plaza and eventually engaged some of the protesters, it became clear that what was happening at UF was nowhere near the level of what was happening at Columbia (for example). I do believe that the protests were led by outside influencers, and it was extremely weird to ask people questions and have them tell me something like "our publicist isn't here right now" (not exact words, but something along those lines)...you could tell they were coached. Still, it's not uncommon for young people gathering in support of a cause to not fully understand what they are supporting. What took place at FLORIDA was incredibly tame and should not have drawn any outrage. Would be glad to have a beer with anybody that has a different take on it, but won't discuss it here.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

No idea with respect to her specifically (I wasn’t on the UF campus when this protest happened), but I will say I’ve heard it and seen it on signs at pretty much every protest / march / demonstration in favor of Palestinians that I have seen, both in person, on social media, and in the news.

That’s my point about people needing to have at least a little bit more awareness in terms of what they’re out there yelling. Presumably it is not the intent of (at least most) young American liberals and Jews who are just looking to stand in solidarity with innocent Palestinians to go out and scream that the State of Israel shouldn’t exist/must be destroyed, but that’s the direct implication of that slogan. But it’s catchy, and has become fairly pervasive - presumably in part because most people aren’t stopping to think through that the thing standing in the way of a Palestinian state stretching “from the river to the sea” is the existence of Israel.

 

Support the orange god or you're not American

 

There is lots of evidence of this. Eg the conservative response to flag burning that I referenced earlier. This is further evidenced by psychological studies (such as in this paper). And like you, I had very conservative parents. They had this ingrained respect for non-human entities, like the flag and the military, that I and most other liberals I know just didn’t come equipped with. Liberals usually just don’t recognize sanctity in the same way.

And I think you are not giving your sensible lib phase enough credit. I still remember the quote you paraphrased for me (that I was unable to find): when we look in the microscope, we see ourselves. I believe that these words describe a crucial challenge to our current moment. If there is anything we can do about it, it must involve more than looking only for facts that support our narrative.

American conservatism traces back to at least Edmund Burke, who used a wonderful analogy of an old building in a ancient city:

The old building stands well enough, though part Gothic, part Grecian, and part Chinese, until an attempt is made to square it into uniformity. Then it may come down upon our heads altogether, in much uniformity of ruin; and great will be the fall thereof.​

There is real wisdom in that quote, as there is in the parable of Chesterton’s fence. Further, no less than Fredric Bastiat argued that a nation’s worth should be judged in accordance with how well it protects the rights of its minorities. I don’t think all of this should be written off so easily.

In addition, we can look around our own neighborhoods for contradictory evidence. My kids’ friends are in a white Christian conservative family, and these people are straight up amazing. There is almost never a moment when they aren’t fostering one or two kids in addition to their own, and they treat these foster kids as well as my wife and I have ever treated ours. And indeed, these kids are usually minorities. My neighborhood also includes a dude who routinely makes racist jokes after a few drinks. The one guy who most calls him out publicly is a conservative republican. Whatever crap is infecting Trump’s brain, there are plenty of regular conservatives who want no part of racism.

I will of course admit that the MAGA takeover has brought to fore some rather horrid perspectives. However, I also think it’s likely that the left will one day be taken by their own populist demagogue, and this will be to the delight of many on the right looking to prove how morally bankrupt is the left. Though I think what this would actually prove is much less interesting: the left is human.