Paint me however you wish. Everyone on this board ..that is honest...will tell you that I am pretty much on the left in regard to gun views. So if you want to look silly trying to frame It otherwise, I have years of posting history to say you are wrong. I was simply telling you, that his legal analysis (including quoting case law) was not just some yahoo yay guns type of post. He gave thoughtful responses.
Sir, I am not trying to paint you in any way whatsoever. But respectfully, what you just said is nonsense. That poster was hemming and hawing that "There's just nothing we can do to fix this problem." We've heard that crap for decades. It's waaaaay past time to call that out for what it is. It's way past time for people to stop defending and enabling that harmful tripe just because, for instance, they may like certain posters more than others. And if you disagree? Think about this; if Texas had changed that law, before 2022, is there at least a pretty decent chance that fewer children would have been slaughtered at Uvalde? Of course there is.
No. The forum records go back over 2 years (in my best Jules Winnfield voice, I know you are the "quote _____ master" - you would have found it if I had said it), and there's another thread where I was discussing mental health and the @l_boy converted it into something related to mental illness. I think even in this thread I've mentioned mental health and a response included "mental illness." This is an attempt for a gotcha, in my view, and I'm not interested in playing that game. I'll just repeat what I always say and that is that the "why" is worth exploring and seeking to get a better understanding of. Go GATORS! ,WESGATORS
That's not me. I'm not a gun owner, and I'm not nearly as invested in gun rights as others on this board. Mental health is an issue regardless of what changes are made to gun laws (in a scope that expands beyond mass shootings). Go GATORS! ,WESGATORS
You seem to have a pet theory that psych meds are causing shootings. Three kids killed by shooter at Christian school “What type of information are we talking about? You could learnsomething about past abuse having been covered up; you could learn about over-medication” “Yeah, I have a reason to be skeptical about how they prescribe all thatmedicine. I'll be glad to share it with you over a beer, but not on the board. If you don't know anybody that's ever been over-prescribed, then consider yourself lucky.” https://www.gatorcountry.com/swampg...=2&q=Mental&o=date&c[node]=23&c[user][0]=5285 Quite a few hits for you with the word “mental” on various shooting occurrences.
Yep. Fact is some psychiatrists are lazy and don't do enough to understand the full picture. Do you disagree? Absolutely, but that's not what you were asking about, is it? Go GATORS! ,WESGATORS
I don’t know what “some” means. Does that ever happen? Probably. Do I have reason to think this is common? No. Regardless what does that have to do with shootings?
Yes, that 100% should be fully disclosed. What is the benefit to society in not disclosing it? Go GATORS! ,WESGATORS
Is it more or less common than the number of gun owners that unjustly kill people? Or is that even worth knowing? Why not just have access to the data so we don't have to wonder whether or not it has anything to do with the shootings? Maybe the answer is nothing at all, but it shouldn't be something that we have to wonder about (I understand it's not something you wonder about, and that's fine). Again, what's the upside of hiding the information? People who do these horrible things should not have their medical/health records kept a secret. Go GATORS! ,WESGATORS
Actually, it seems that you don't believe that psychiatric meds could in any way be a factor, which is why you are so argumentative about them. I support full discovery of the lives of the people that do these things, that's my point. Understand these people and everything about that that made them who they were at the time they made these decisions. Why is that such an objectionable idea to you? Tell us your side of the story instead of asking loaded questions. Go GATORS! ,WESGATORS
This seems like RFK Jr level crackpottery on the level of his autism stuff. Your premise seems to be based on the idea that "no one is telling is if they are on meds" ... it seems a bit conspiratorial. But I havent followed the whole history of your conversations. Seems like people just want to avoid basic assumptions like, access to guns is a problem, as is mundane sorts of misogyny that blossoms into a rage against peers & community that is directed outward. Medication is easy to ban or regulate, so I get it, because guns and misogyny aren't.
If this is on the level, how in the world would you separate out causality with the data? So, for example, say that the data says that shooters are 3 times more likely to be on psych meds than non-school shooters. What does that mean? If you really want to handle this scientifically, you need to clearly state a hypothesis and a way that causation could be disentangled. Clearly, you can't do a RCT here, as that would be unethical (i.e., giving people that meet the criteria for medications that have already been proven to help people in prior double blinds in order to see which group acts more violently would be obviously unethical as you are intentionally harming a person relative to their current treatment options based on existing studies). Looking at a series of numbers seems unimportant, unless the goal is to take the numbers and make spurious claims about causality.
A closed book is what leads to conspiracy theories. My whole point is to open the book. @l_boy is the one with a heavy emphasis on the psych meds, I included that in one of the things that I think should be disclosed, and he latched onto it like I never said anything else. But we should also know if they were abused, police reports, therapies involved, any other trauma not otherwise classified, any trouble dealing with such trauma...include it all. I think it's important to try to put together how this person came to be and to share that information with the world. This isn't about just focusing on meds, not sure where that comes from. Go GATORS! ,WESGATORS
If you want to gather a comprehensive list of info, that included, fine. But the notion that psych meds actually cause such shootings seems far fetched. Presumably people who take psych meds are mentally ill. Wouldn’t it make more sense that it’s the mental illness, not the psych meds, that cause the unwanted behavior? I have two now adult children who both have had psychiatric issues their entire lives and have extensive experience with psych meds. Sometimes they help. Sometimes they don’t. Some are quite serious in terms of side effects. But the notion that the meds are the problem, and not the mental illness seems silly, to be generous. While I probably wouldn’t have a gun anyway, I certainly wouldn’t given the kids profile. However, clearly there are a lot of gun owners who don’t think the same way. while I don’t have statistics on gun violence on others, the completed suicide rate of bipolar and schizophrenia is somewhere between 5-10%. It would stand to reason that people with such issues are more likely to succomb to gun violence. Given those numbers, that is why psych meds are often used. Yes they have side effects and are serious meds, and no they don’t always work. But with stakes that high you contemplate more significant measures, like use of psych meds.
How does this 'opening the book' work? We give up our rights to privacy, repeal HIPAA? Register with the government if you take psych meds? And if you are gonna say, well "only for the people that do shootings" ... you arent stopping any shootings in the meantime, and you would need a very large sample size to make any kind of rigorous conclusion, so this would would take possibly decades to collect data. And the best way to get good data is to have more shootings ... kinda ghoulish dont you think?
I may be in the minority here, but I don't think mass shooters should have privacy rights, it doesn't benefit society or others in society who have not committed such egregious violations of others' rights. The trigger isn't whether you take meds or not, it's whether you've been a mass shooter. So this wouldn't impact the privacy rights of people who may otherwise just be taking medications. Go GATORS! ,WESGATORS
Disco. Maybe we learn something from it. Maybe we learn absolutely nothing from it (and if that's the case, it may give us a different overall impression of gun rights...just a thought). Go GATORS! ,WESGATORS
