As a former engineering prof I understand that some majors are prep for a career in that area. But we should never think of the university as a trade school. A big problem that Chap has hit on is that decent legacy students can't get in because the standards for admission are so much higher than they were for their parents. Kids that did decently well in high school like their parents don't make the cut anymore. The problem with becoming a top public school.
When Jeb! pushed trough One Florida, eliminating race, etc, in admissions decisions “legacy” admissions were also eliminated. Only merit matters.
thx for clarifying Lurk . We got in a race for the #1 public university and forgot about kids that were more rounded . They were looking for “on paper “ 5 star kids . I could give a rats azz about that .
Perhaps, but the North Texas College of Music is one of the best in the world. My point was that the international students you were critical of tend to be the best and brightest/most talented. Attracting smart/talented students on a global level is not a bad thing, wing.
Fair enough Davis ! I respect the work you put in ! Bottom line I’d have no chance to get in and play baseball if those admissions were in place when I was coming thru
I hear ya. I'd have no chance of getting in nowa days either. But I'd suggest you not sell yourself short. Word on the street is that you had a mean changeup, but that your fastball lacked a little . . . sizzle . Still mighta earned a scholly for that changeup!
I think that it is a common misconception that "a lot" of international students are taking the place FL kids that are good students and want to go to UF. The large majority of international students at UF are at the graduate level or above. Less than one thousand undergraduates are international students and in 2023 only 120 were Freshmen. That doesn't really support the supposition that there are a large number of Gator legacy kids that are losing out to international students. 2023 | International Center University of Florida
Certainly, any institution like academia will have embarrassing illustrations of injustice where the undeserving get admission over the deserving. Rich parents, race, do-me-a-favor, etc have probably caused less-privileged applicants to go another route. Yet a "meritocracy" can have unintended consequences as well. You might say that the applicant that only comes to UF because of what it will "do for them" materially / financially has a mercenary approach. The legacy that might not be as sharp academically but that gets neck-deep in the campus experience and has to work harder to stay on might end up a far more devoted graduate, coming back repeatedly, giving back with funding, tickets etc. than one that takes the material positives of a UF degree and never looks back. The removal of seemingly unfair back-door means of greasing the skids of admission, like "legacy admits", etc and using only merit seems like a good thing, and I am all for meritocracy. And yet, sometimes, the kid that grew up dreaming of being a Gator might end up, in the long run, a better student and alum than a non-legacy, even if his SATs are not as strong as the non-legacy. I say this as a guy that KNOWS his darn good grades and SAT, etc in HS probably wouldn't be good enough today.
I had straight A's in high school and back in the day before they recalibrated the SAT I had a 99.99% score but I knew that I had zero chance of going to Harvard. Not tht I wanted to. Their engineering program sucks. Never heard from Princeton but never applied. I also had an awesome National Merit Exam Score and got an offer from UF without even applying. Back then they wanted to get as many National Merit Scholars as possible. But back then I don't think they had "Gator Getters" for academics. LOL.
Some great points. I would add....that kid dreaming of being a Gator can still go that Santa Fe type route and try to become a Gator. That's not for everyone of course, but where there's a will there's a way. I tend to equate it to athletes. Plenty of kids want to play for the Gators, many are legacies. But we don't expect the coaches to take them if they aren't good enough. Just the realities of elite athletics and elite academics
Actually I think a kid in STEM would get a better education taking calculus, physics and chem at Santa Fe versus UF.
It was actually the curveball that was my pitch and throwing from the left side didn’t hurt . But u are correct my fastball didn’t reach 90mph and I had a way higher ERA than a GPA
It's in the nature of an institution to leverage its strengths to produce graduates who will perpetuate its values and interests. To do that, it must admit the kind of person best suited to that mission. Academic institutions were once places where all manner of citizen could be found—because we need all manner of educated citizens to sustain a healthy society. Graduates across disciplines—business, science, liberal arts—went on to succeed in their fields, contribute to endowments, send their children to the same school, and carry the institution’s name and ideals well beyond their commencement speeches. If this weren’t true, these places would be little more than trade schools. In my view, the decline of the liberal arts stems from a narrow focus on their perceived "low economic value" to degree holders. This perspective ignores the immense contributions of liberal arts graduates in art, literature, philosophy, and civic life—contributions that elevate and ennoble society in ways that defy monetary measurement. The establishment of the Hamilton Institute at the University of Florida is, to me, a bold and necessary reminder that a flourishing society depends on more than just STEM fields and "functional" education. We need critical thinkers, historians, philosophers, and artists just as much as we need engineers and coders. On a more personal note—my father graduated from the U.S. Military Academy in 1946, part of the third generation in our family to do so. He was average in track and field, had middling grades, and only got in thanks to pulling some 'old family' strings—during a time of war, no less. But he grew up with one dream: to serve his country as a West Point graduate. He lived and breathed the ideals of the Academy and gave 32 years of valorous service, embodying what West Point stood for every step of the way. What I see today is a meritocracy that, while producing technically brilliant students, is perhaps attracting a different kind of candidate. Service academies are now among the most selective colleges in the world by the numbers. Yet many of their graduates serve only the bare minimum commitment before leveraging their prestigious degrees into lucrative civilian careers. Some view the academy as a transactional deal: five years in uniform in exchange for a lifetime credential. That frustrates me. I want those institutions to produce educated warriors—leaders of character who believe deeply in the mission, not just achievers checking a box. When the chips are down—when TSHTF—we need true believers, not resume builders. And I fear we’re nearing one of those moments in our society. Now more than ever, we need graduates—whether from West Point or UF—who believe that history, philosophy, and the arts are vital. These disciplines shape the kind of minds capable of helping us find our way through cultural and societal crisis. It’s not enough to know how to build a bridge. We need to understand why it’s worth building in the first place. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
My Son did that after barely passing HS. He has a UF degree now and finished with the highest GPA in a family of UF grads. My youngest Daughter is on that track right now.
From what I hear, Santa Fe has grown mightily in value and academic rigor thanks to the many wanted-to-get-into-UF kids that go there hoping to transfer. Seems a benign cycle!
Don't let those pesky facts get in the way of ignorant posters saying racist things on this forum though!
