I don’t really care about what 27 scientists said 5 years ago, and I’m clearly not as invested as you are in proving my side is right, when I’ve already said I don’t see conclusive evidence on either side.… but here we are, 5 years later, and I’ve yet to see anyone propose a theory, let alone provide evidence, on how China manufactured a virus without leaving a genetic footprint, which seems like the most crucial component of proving it was a lab leak… so for now, it’s impossible to say those 27 scientists were wrong…
Lab leak was never naughty or cutting edge. It has been “permitted dissent” since January 2020. Both sides agree Bad Chinese Virus but only disagree on origin. The people who were disappeared were the people, no matter their expertise or prior reputation, who argued not bad or non-existent.
This. Whether or not the lab or the wet market was the origin, it's difficult to come to the conclusion that the virus was man-made without any of the genetic markers. Without the genetic markers, it either means the virus was naturally zoonotic, or the Chinese are decades ahead of us in their virology research that they can create new viruses without known genetic markers.
To Wit: “Lab leak” and “zoonotic spillover” theories are the two constituent parts of a deliberately engineered false dichotomy. By permitting argument between these two choices alone, the question as to whether we actually had a pandemic at all—and what therefore caused the myriad harms—is avoided. Yet BOTH theories have the same endpoint: the sustenance of the “Pandemic Preparedness Industry” which, flush with a hugely successful “Covid” episode will no doubt delight in the prospect of lucrative reruns. Every single aspect of the “Covid” narrative is fake. There was no pandemic.
Yeah, I would try to not talk about that also if I was trying to make the opposite argument. But it did happen and if you just trust them, well that makes a lot of sense because you said you trusted Fauci on covid and he knowingly lied to the public. But you are ok with it...
This is a podcast / YouTube show where actual virologists talk about viruses. From their perspective the arguments made by lab leak proponents border on absurd. They pretty much shred the arguments made by the lab leak proponents. These are the people that best understand the issues. So you are left with - you believe what these experts say - or you believe that they are all conspiring to cover up the truth.
These people (pharmaceutical companies and their ilk in the Dems Party) will lie even after the government sues them and makes them pay billions of dollars... They will take this lie to their graves.
I have plenty of articles that paint it the other way as well. Here is a good one. When there is this big of a coverup from all involved it makes me think they did something dirty. You can believe what you want, but for the most part these "scientists" got pretty much everything wrong on Covid... MSN The researchers published an extensive database in 2019 containing more than 22,000 collected samples. However, Chan notes, access to the data was “shut off” in the fall of that year, and was not shared with American research partners even after the pandemic began. Scientists at the Wuhan lab reportedly became sick with COVID-like symptoms as early as the fall of 2019, according to information leaked to the Wall Street Journal and later confirmed by US government sources. However, Chan wrote, the scientists denied that they were ever sick.
Alina Chan has been the main flag bearer for the lab leak hypothesis. She is a real scientist, and I think she’s sincere in her claims. Still, most other real scientists sincerely believe she’s mistaken. The question is why should we give her views such priority over the majority of other scientists? You might say because her views are superior. Perhaps, but according to whom? I certainly haven’t seen anything to give me the confidence that you have in her conclusions. I already explained the main problems with a few of her scientific arguments above, but David Gorski provides a more comprehensive response to her claims here: The New York Times promotes “lab leak” conspiracy theories He points to this 2024 article as the most comprehensive review of the evidence on the origin of COVID. https://www.annualreviews.org/content/journals/10.1146/annurev-virology-093022-013037 It is indeed an exhaustive analysis, and I think very much refutes the idea that all the evidence points to a lab leak. Let me know if you can’t read the article. I can try to send it maybe.
“Bioweapon” as something which can spread all over the world is a fairy tale. No one has ever devised one other than perhaps toxins that could be dispersed over a small area (see: WWI) or delivered to individuals in packets (see: ricin).
It's not just her. Anytime there is a concerted effort to shut down a scientific theory, I think something nefarious is going on. Again, why did those 27 scientists decide to make those statements in Feb of 2020 without any knowledge? The BS meter for me has been going off for a long time. The BBC article below shows some of the issues. Again, why was China, Fauci and anyone Fauci deals with so adamant to shoot down the Lab leak theory when they didn't know either way? If that doesn't bother you then that should raise some flags... Covid origin: Why the Wuhan lab-leak theory is so disputed A prominent group of scientists criticised the WHO report for not taking the lab-leak theory seriously enough - it was dismissed in a few pages of a several-hundred-page report. "We must take hypotheses about both natural and laboratory spillovers seriously until we have sufficient data," the scientists wrote in Science Magazine. They're not the only experts who called for the laboratory leak to be looked at more closely. Even the WHO's own director-general, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, called for a new investigation, saying: "All hypotheses remain open and require further study."
Again, lab theory was being espoused, albeit by a minority as early as Jan 20. The only people who were shut down - and they were shut down tight - were the people who were suggesting that ‘Covid’ wasn’t so severe as to warrant shutting down the private sector for.
As an example of someone who was truly cracked down upon, John Ioaniddis was one of the most cited epidemiologists in the world. He believed in Covid. He allowed that it might be severe. His crime ? For pleading for caution pending more research, he was roundly attacked, viciously hounded and his reputation smeared. You want science ? Here’s your science … The Ioannidis Affair: A Tale of Major Scientific Overreaction
One explanation as to why China doesn't want anyone to inspect the lab is the lab may not be a clean facility. And COVID might have been a naturally occurring zoonotic viral leap that might have been avoided had the facility been properly kept. It's just a theory, but it has as much validity as others. Why? Because the lab leak theory has a major hole. And that's genetic markers. COVID having no genetic markers of being human made can only mean two things. One, the virus was naturally occurring. Or two, the Chinese are far, FAR ahead of us in creating viruses from nothing. That latter is also possible, and cannot be discounted completely. But which is more likely?
If by Covid one means SARS-CoV2 it was never isolated so as to distinguish between nature or nurture. Again, it was literally a computer printout.
Aren't these the same scientist that lied saying if we took the fake vaccine it would prevent us from catching covid and keep others from getting it. That turned out to be up lie and you expect us to believe this . Only the Sheep believe this BS
