Okay, this is my theory … Somebody left the back door open after Uber Eats delivered lunch. So a bioweapon escaped, a bioweapon so cunning that it waited weeks, until the WHO formally introduced it March 11, 2020 … then it proceeded to kill refrigerator van loads of people in the US but not across the border in Canada.
My opinion is that we don’t know. There is no conclusive evidence on either side, and you claiming something is “the Truth”, and citing a law enforcement agency who says “it’s probable but with low certainty” , only proves that you don’t know what “the truth” means. BTW, I see the CIA changed their opinion on this to “man made” a day after Trump’s guy was sworn in…. So don’t tell me that’s about science and not politics. China has to be the “bad guy”, right?
So you have no opinion on this? Then why even be in this thread? Seems brilliant... Again, ask yourself why China and Fauci were so up in arms about the possibility that covid came from the Wuhan lab? Wouldn't you want the country of origin and anyone involved with the Lab at all to not rule out anything and not try to shut down any investigations into the origins? If not, that tells me all I need to know about you.
I wouldn’t say that the evidence for lab leak is overwhelming. As war noted, even the American groups that have endorsed the hypothesis did so with low confidence. As I noted, the argument that it was too well evolved doesn’t hold up well. Another argument for the lab leak came from the presence of the furin cleavage site in the spike protein. But more analysis showed this site present in other lineages of coronaviruses. Another suspicious event was that a couple decades earlier, six mine workers came up sick with something like COVID. It was then guessed that the scientist who studied these people cultured one of the coronaviruses which eventually became COVID. But this also proved unlikely, as COVID was found to have over 1,000 differences from this older virus, too many for evolution or engineering to have produced. Further suspicion originally fell on the market because of the high number of early infected who visited that market. I think the number was something like 20 of the first 30 identified cases had something to do with the market. Now this could be coincidence, but so too might be having one or two people from the virus lab get sick. I think War’s stance is the correct one. We simply don’t know COVID’s origin yet, and might never know, but we certainly shouldn’t conceal data that supports either of the two hypotheses.
I think until we get unfettered access to the Wuhan lab we won't know 100% but I don't think China will ever let that happen. So we will be forced to make a best guess, and at this point I believe all data points to the lab leak, not a wet market. And the fact Fauci and Co tried so hard to push back on the lab leak theory tells me they know where covid came from. Why else go so hard against the lab leak theory? Doesn't make covid any less serious. Only reason I can see for them to do this is self preservation.
Seems like you can’t read. Saying “we don’t know” is an opinion. No one “shut down” any investigation, as is clearly evident by the fact that US agencies continue, to this day, to offer low confidence opinions on the topic. Don’t you want to know the actual truth, instead of grasping onto a political talking point and claiming it’s “the truth”? If not, it tells me all I need to know ow about you.
I think it’s fair to say that China hasn’t been overly cooperative on this investigation, which does seem to suggest they aren’t uber keen on everyone getting to the bottom of this. Indeed, this posture lines up with the lab leak hypothesis, but it’s also possible that they are trying to protect their illegal animal trades as well. Or just don’t like giving Americans access to their private goings on in general. As for Fauci’s denial of the lab leak hypothesis, this might be more political than scientific. Rather than knowing what the true cause is, the NIH may have been trying to avoid overtly insulting America’s primary geopolitical rival.
As I recall, the reason given for the initial pushback against “lab leak” was that DNA analysis of the virus didn’t show any genetic modification and they were not able match up a known virus that was used as the basis for a modification …. So it was either natural or China is way ahead of the World to the point they can completely fabricate a virus and/or disguise genetic modification… which seems pretty advanced when the argument in favor of this theory also includes that they were so incompetent that they accidentally infected themselves. But if those points have changed, let me know.
Wouldn’t they have had to have found a virus in order to conduct DNA analysis of such and to have found a Spike Protein by examining a furin cleavage site ?
No one shut down any investigation? LOL. Sure... The Lab-Leak Theory: Inside the Fight to Uncover COVID-19’s Origins On February 19, 2020, The Lancet, among the most respected and influential medical journals in the world, published a statement that roundly rejected the lab-leak hypothesis, effectively casting it as a xenophobic cousin to climate change denialism and anti-vaxxism. Signed by 27 scientists, the statement expressed “solidarity with all scientists and health professionals in China” and asserted: “We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin.” The Lancet statement effectively ended the debate over COVID-19’s origins before it began. To Gilles Demaneuf, following along from the sidelines, it was as if it had been “nailed to the church doors,” establishing the natural origin theory as orthodoxy. “Everyone had to follow it. Everyone was intimidated. That set the tone.”
I guess we disagree on why a country wouldn't want everyone knowing where covid originated from. When we have not only China but also the NIH trying to play deflection that tells me a lot. If they were transparent then I think most would feel differently. Fact is multiple scientists at the Wuhan lab got covid in early Dec. I can't find it now but none of the scientists at the time said that they were anywhere near the wet markets and had limited contact with anyone that had been to wet markets at the time. So with all that info, my best guess is lab leak. Think most rational people would feel the same.
How exactly did it "end the debate before it began", when again, to this day, agencies continue to investigate and offer opinions on the origins of Covid?
The CIA issued a revised opinion on the origins of Covid 2 months ago ... Claiming "The debated ended in February of 2020, and all the debate since then proves I'm right!" doesn't make a whole lot of sense, does it?
LOL. Again, how are they investigating the Covid lab leak? Did they go to China? Did they go to the Wuhan Lab? Did they go to the wet markets? If not, then no, they aren't actually investigating the covid lab leak theory.
So you think Trump's new CIA director just issued that statement without any evidence, for political purposes, perhaps? I mean, that's certainly a possibility. You also never answered my question from #169. Scientist world-wide cast doubt on the lab leak theory because they saw no plausible way that Covid 19 was genetically modified in a lab. Has that changed? Is there actually a scientific theory on how Covid could have been whipped up by China -- like God Saying "let there be Covid" -- without leaving a genetic modification footprint?
LOL. No one is investigating the origins of covid because China won't let it happen. And I believe Fauci is very happy about that. So it sounds like you are firmly in the covid came from wet market camp. Figured. Makes sense especially considering your takes on covid itself. I love the "no genetic modification footprint" BS. Oh, and it's easy to say it didn't come from the lab when you know China will never let us or any country go in and find out with certainty. Like Heads I win, tails you lose. Got it.
