Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

U.S. sides with Russia against Ukraine war resolution

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by dynogator, Feb 24, 2025.

  1. CHFG8R

    CHFG8R GC Hall of Fame

    7,227
    622
    443
    Apr 24, 2007
    St. Augustine, FL
    Russia (Catherine The Great) acquired Crimea by annexing it from the Ottoman Empire in the 18th CENTURY!!!!

    Jesus, you suck at your own history!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. CHFG8R

    CHFG8R GC Hall of Fame

    7,227
    622
    443
    Apr 24, 2007
    St. Augustine, FL
    You do it on an hourly basis dude.
     
  3. GratefulGator

    GratefulGator GC Hall of Fame

    1,781
    580
    2,013
    Oct 15, 2016
    Boulder Colorado
    Guess who also voted with Russia and North Korea?
    Israel...
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. vegasfox

    vegasfox GC Hall of Fame

    2,815
    235
    113
    Feb 4, 2024
    Cokehead
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  5. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

    12,457
    1,185
    1,618
    Apr 9, 2007
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. vegasfox

    vegasfox GC Hall of Fame

    2,815
    235
    113
    Feb 4, 2024
    The author of your article is a John McCain-like neocon who wanted Ukraine fast tracked into NATO. That type of thinking led to the current war.

    Russia knew if Ukraine became a member of NATO there would eventually be hypersonic nuclear missiles in Ukraine that could hit Moscow 3 minutes after they were launched.

    Imagine Russia wanted Mexico to join a Russian military alliance. Imagine Russian nuclear missiles were going to eventually be placed in Mexico and pointed at American cities that could be hit in minutes.

    Do you think the US would invade Mexico to stop this? Congratulations, you now know why Russia invaded Ukraine
     
  7. GratefulGator

    GratefulGator GC Hall of Fame

    1,781
    580
    2,013
    Oct 15, 2016
    Boulder Colorado
    Sir, I have been coked out and have been around the same in the 80s. At no point in that X video did I ever think Zelensky was "coked out."
    You've obviously no experience with this drug...
     
    • Winner Winner x 5
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  8. vegasfox

    vegasfox GC Hall of Fame

    2,815
    235
    113
    Feb 4, 2024
    We're talking about the Russian annexation of Crimea in 2014 (in case you aren't trying to be funny)
     
  9. CHFG8R

    CHFG8R GC Hall of Fame

    7,227
    622
    443
    Apr 24, 2007
    St. Augustine, FL
    It is funny, though, when these types chime in.
     
  10. vegasfox

    vegasfox GC Hall of Fame

    2,815
    235
    113
    Feb 4, 2024
    A lot of former coke heads and Intel analysts think Zelensky is a coke head. Looked like a coke head to me. And you'te wrong about my life experiences
     
  11. lacuna

    lacuna philologist VIP Member

    63,483
    3,789
    2,353
    Apr 8, 2007
    Redlands, Colorado
    From post #33 up thread
    Incongruence.

    And Rick rendered his posts irrelevant back in late 2015 when he admitted he would intentionally lie. Justifying that admission in his accusation Democrats lie, so he in turn will do the same to counter what he perceives as lies from his political opposites.
     
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  12. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

    12,457
    1,185
    1,618
    Apr 9, 2007
    You are wrong again. There was a deceptively edited deep fake of Zelensky admitting cocaine use. But since you get all your sources directly from the Kremlin, you bought it hook, line, and sinker. Good job, comrade.

    As for which side broke the Minsk agreements, let's look at this rationally. Which side had more to lose if the agreements were broken? Russia would lose nothing and gain an excuse to invade Ukraine. Ukraine, on the other hand, could lose it's entire autonomy and enter into a war it would likely lose, and lose quickly if it poked the Russian Bear by breaking the agreements. Remember, three years ago, most experts predicted Ukraine would be overrun in months, if not weeks if Russia invaded.

    So again, thinking logically, which side broke the Minsk agreements?
     
  13. Norcaligator

    Norcaligator GC Hall of Fame

    1,187
    154
    288
    Sep 21, 2007
    You said: "US set the precedent for Russia's invasion of the Donbas and annexation of Crimea. Russia tried to follow international law."

    I thought your statement that Russia tried to follow international law by invading the Donbas was laughable.
    I get that Russia was clearly backing the pro-Russian separatists in the conflict.
    But exactly what international law was Russia following?

    And please don't respond by telling me what you think anyone else's responsibility was for that or any other conflict or what anyone else did wrong somewhere else in the world.
    Tell me the "international law" Russia followed when it invaded Ukraine.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 2
  14. vegasfox

    vegasfox GC Hall of Fame

    2,815
    235
    113
    Feb 4, 2024
    Hard to be wrong "again" when I haven't been wrong at all yet.

    You are wrong in assuming I think Zelensky uses cocaine because of some video you linked to. Many analysts say that's what people in the Intel world think. One of those is Gregory Copley, who has met with Ukrainian generals and Intel officers.

    As for Minsk, it's clear that Ukraine violated the agreements by shelling Russian-speakers. I'm fully convinced Washington signed off on this. The US wanted war, which would be used to sanction Russia. The goal being to split Russia apart and get rid of Putin
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  15. vegasfox

    vegasfox GC Hall of Fame

    2,815
    235
    113
    Feb 4, 2024
    Not sure what you're talking about about
     
  16. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    17,981
    1,288
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    For all his bluster and peace-making persona, I don’t get the impression that Trump has real plan to end war. Putin certainly does and that’s to settle the war militarily.

     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2025
  17. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

    12,457
    1,185
    1,618
    Apr 9, 2007
    There is no evidence Zelensky is a coke head. Except a deep fake.

    As for whom broke the Minsk agreement, what would Ukraine get from breaking it? Poking the bear and giving Russia an excuse to invade. Does that sound like something Ukraine would want? Again, remember, most experts expected Russia to take Kyiv within a few months, if not weeks.

    Now I understand what the US would get from Ukraine breaking the Minsk agreements. We get to rally against Putin and spend "aid" on Ukraine with 90% going to the MIL here in the US. But if you're Zelensky, do you really agree to break the Minsk agreements knowing that you are not only signing your own death warrant, but also potentially ending any/all autonomy Ukraine had after Russia invades?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  18. vegasfox

    vegasfox GC Hall of Fame

    2,815
    235
    113
    Feb 4, 2024
    When the Muslim province of Kosovo declared it's independence from Serbia the US bombed Belgrade for 78 days citing Article 51 of the UN Charter. Donetsk and Luhansk ddeclared the independence in 2014. When Ukraine started killing their Russian-speakers in 2022 Russia invaded citing Article 51 and the precedent set by the US
     
  19. Norcaligator

    Norcaligator GC Hall of Fame

    1,187
    154
    288
    Sep 21, 2007
    I think it is pathetic that you can't just answer the question without trying to bring in something you claim the U.S. did, which is completely irrelevant.

    It was NATO that bombed Belgrade, not the U.S. acting independently. NATO is not an independent state and didn't cite (or even have the right to cite) Article 51 at all. After searching, I don't see where the U.S. did either. Do you have source for your claim or are you just making stuff up?

    The Independent International Commission on Kosovo determined that the bombing was illegal. So if you are comparing the two events, I don't see how you can state that Russia followed international law.

    And the cite to Article 51 as a basis for saying Russia followed international law is complete bullshit.

    Article 51 states that “[n]othing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security.”

    1. There was no independent state (Member of the UN or even a state with capacity to enter into relations with other states) requesting Russia's assistance - certainly not in 2014 when Russia first invaded the Donbas, nor in 2022.
    2. Article 2, subpart 4 states that "All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations."

    Russia didn't try to follow international law. It tried to justify its aggression.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2025
    • Winner Winner x 3
  20. vegasfox

    vegasfox GC Hall of Fame

    2,815
    235
    113
    Feb 4, 2024
    Sorry, you can't look at what's happened in Ukraine without understanding what occurred in Kosovo.

    When Serbia and it's province Kosovo were fighting in 1999 the US/NATO thought they had the right to invade Serbia and bomb Belgrade for 78 days. Russia objected. The US could not have cared less.

    In 2008 Kosovo declared it's independence. The US recognized it's independence immediately.

    Putin said this was a terrible mistake and set a bad precedent that would come back and hit the West in the face.

    2014: The US gets rid of the democratically elected president of Ukraine who was friendly with the country's Russian-speakers. Crimea votes to leave Ukraine and get annexed by Russia. Putin and the Duma annex Crimea, citing the precedent of Kosovo.

    Luhansk and Donetsk declared their independence in 2014. For years Russia urged them to remain part of Ukraine. When Ukraine's hostilities towards the Russian-speakers became to great Russia recognized their independence, citing the precedent of Kosovo.

    Russia played by our rules.

    Putin calls Kosovo independence 'terrible precedent'
    February 23, 2008 — 9.06pm


    Russian President Vladimir Putin today described the declaration of independence by Kosovo as a "terrible precedent" that will come back to hit the West "in the face."

    The comments came as Moscow ratcheted up its condemnation of Western powers' support for the province's secession from Serbia, with a Russian envoy warning NATO and the European Union against "brute force" in Kosovo.

    Russia has vehemently opposed Kosovo's independence declaration, reflecting Moscow's historical ties with Orthodox Christian Serbia, which continues to claim Kosovo as a Serbian province.

    "The precedent of Kosovo is a terrible precedent, which will de facto blow apart the whole system of international relations, developed not over decades, but over centuries," Putin told a Moscow meeting of regional leaders.

    "They have not thought through the results of what they are doing. At the end of the day it is a two-ended stick and the second end will come back and hit them in the face," Putin said, in comments later broadcast on state television.
    Putin calls Kosovo independence 'terrible precedent'




    26 Apr 2022, 16:12
    Putin cites precedent of Kosovo in explaining recognition of DPR, LPR
    In a similar fashion, the republics of Donbass had the same right to declare their sovereignty, "since the precedent was set", Russian President noted

    MOSCOW, April 26./TASS/. Russia had the right to recognize the independence of the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics and render military assistance, President Vladimir Putin said at a meeting with UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres on Tuesday.

    Putin mentioned the decision of the UN International Court of Justice on Kosovo, that in exercising the right to self-determination, the territory of a state is not obliged to apply for permission to declare its sovereignty to the country’s central authorities. He drew attention to the support for this decision by the UN court. "I personally read all commentaries - from legal, administrative, political agencies of the US, European countries. Everybody supported this," Putin stressed.

    In a similar fashion, the republics of Donbass had the same right to declare their sovereignty, "since the precedent was set". "Right? Do you agree with this?" Putin asked Guterres, who answered that the UN did not recognize Kosovo. "But the court did recognize it," Putin parried. "If this precedent was set, the republics of Donbass could do the same," he went on to say, while Russia got the right to recognize them as independent states.

    "Very many countries of the world did this, including our opponents in the West, in respect of Kosovo. <…>. That’s a fact that very many states of the West recognized it as an independent state. We did the same in respect of the republics of Donbass," he went on to say. "After we did this, they asked us to provide military assistance in respect of the state that was conducting military operations against them. And we had the right to do this, in full compliance with Article 51 of Chapter VII of the UN Charter," Putin stressed.
    Putin cites precedent of Kosovo in explaining recognition of DPR, LPR