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Trump outsmarts China

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Orange_and_Bluke, Feb 12, 2025.

  1. thomadm

    thomadm VIP Member

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    No, we are in this mess because our electorate is dumb as a rock.
     
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  2. CHFG8R

    CHFG8R GC Hall of Fame

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    They don't either, it's actually at the heart of their system. They only "crack down" when it's time to purge opposition. It's hilarious you mention this because, again, it's like 1000x worse there. Everybody has their hand out and it's been that way for centuries.
     
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  3. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Give Trump a chance! He'll return the U.S. to the Dark Ages, if you let him.
     
  4. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Don't think of it as paying more for cars because we are racist against the Chinese. I don't think we are. We didn't mind in the 1990's when China had the world's largest army. The army was relatively primitive--not all of their soldiers even had firearms. The main purpose of the army was twofold: to keep young men (who outnumbered the single women in China) busy and occupied and gainfully employed, and to have a large work force ready to attack floods and other natural disasters that lead to widespread unhappiness and protests. With their increase in wealth in the 2000's, China has started to modernize their army, unfortunately the same way as it modernized their industry; through theft of technology secrets. What was once a simple, defensive military now has massive offensive capability, even without considering their nuclear weapons.

    China has always had beefs against other countries in Asia and around the world, and now has a military capable of settling those old scores. It isn't enough for China to be equals to other nations around the world--they need to dominate, just like Hitler and Tojo tried to do. China has a major problem with Japan for what happened in WWII, so they are a likely candidate for retribution. The U.S. and Britain both profited from getting Chinese people addicted to opium in the 1800's, so they are valid targets. And they have centuries-old border disputes with most of their neighbors.

    China is dangerous. Plain and simple. That is why we need to pay more for cars so we do not support the Chinese military. We need for the Chinese economy to suffer a bit more until Chairman Xi is replaced by someone willing to play by the rules and not threaten their neighbors. I don't think those two things are too much to ask for. China is about as dangerous as Russia is, if not more so (Russia is a bit more reckless). The U.S. benefits from being involved in free trade with non-homicidal countries during extended times of worldwide peace.
     
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  5. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Yes, we are afraid of Chinese power, and that is driven by Western Chauvinism if not just crude racism. Of course there is also the need for an adversary to define the American empire against, which justifies our own military build up, security state, autocratic tendencies and the overall imperial project. We have always "needed" that since WWII ended and we refused to demilitarize. America is dangerous, plain and simple. For me, for the world, for humanity. As I said before, that doesnt make China the liberator of humanity. But why should I be invested in two autocratic societies competing, where war will almost certainly be the inevitable result?
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2025
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  6. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    We've given back virtually every country we've ever invaded. All we typically ask for is enough space to bury our dead. The fact that the U.S. has maintained a powerful military since WWII has resulted in far more peace worldwide than there would be if we did not do so. There is no question that Russia has pursued a path towards global domination since WWII. And that China has done the same in the last 25 years or so. Had we taken an approach with less military strength, Russia would have taken over Europe by now. China may have taken over Asia at some point, also.

    War is not a foregone conclusion. We have not gone to war with Russia since WWII, have we? However, if you are not prepared for war, you are often MORE LIKELY to be attacked, not less. It only takes one country to decide that there needs to be a war, and then there is a war. The other country can fight back or surrender. By being prepared for war, the U.S. has so far persuaded Russia to never start a war with the U.S.

    It's not chauvinism, and it's not racism. It's survivalism.
     
  7. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Define "giving back" - we maintain a military presence in every country we've defeated in a war! Say what you will about Russia, but they arent still occupying Germany. There's no way to measure what would have happened if the US had demilitarized. But the Cold War and all the various proxy wars and stuff killed millions of people. Since the Cold War, we have been involved in multiple wars, one which was a unilateral invasion based on false intelligence that we presented to the UN!