Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    9,504
    2,223
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    I did not hear anything extremely revealing in those remarks. Ukraine cannot gain back its land by military means. Agreed. (The fact that Russia is also hopelessly stuck and cannot win by military means either is still there but left unsaid) Ukraine has suffered terribly and will continue to if the war goes on. Agreed. (Again, Russia’s own suffering is left unsaid but undeniable). In order for a negotiation to work, both sides have to give up something. Agreed. And does anyone dispute that?

    The position of this Administration is that the war needs to end through diplomatic settlement as soon as possible. Rubio’s remarks reflect that policy. Now who is he trying to message with that particular version of remarks? Maybe, in this case, the people who believe that if we just arm Ukraine enough they can march right back to their 2014 borders, and Russia will grudgingly accept the results of the match for all time like good sports. That is simply not realistic. The converse of it is not realistic either: Russia does not have the combination of time, resources, and will it would take to realize its strategic ends in Ukraine, and the more it uses the first two, not only the less it has of the third but also the more that same will gets directed against the regime.

    The Administration has two obstacles to negotiations: the intransigence of the Putin regime and the far more sympathetic intransigence of those who want to see Ukraine gain total victory. I see this particular clip as messaging against the second group. Of course, my prediction remains that Russia will ultimately be the bigger problem (because their demands will far exceed what the Trump Administration would find fair to Ukraine), and we will adopt a strategy intended to turn up the pain on Russia, getting them to a point where they will take a settlement more favorable to Ukraine but before Russia collapses internally, causing us even bigger geopolitical problems.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    14,458
    2,053
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    How many major wars did Stalin, Mao and Castro start? They were extremely hard on their own people, but to the other national leaders in their respective Politburos, that was discipline. Getting involved in a war with another peer nation puts everything at risk. It can be an existential decision, certainly for the leadership of the country. If you lose the war and the country that you started the war with doesn't kill you, your own people may demand that you get removed and put on trial. Sometimes the people do rise up and demand new leadership. That happened to several dictatorships in South America.

    You worry about your nonfunctional brain, son. That's probably all you can handle. When you're older, you'll be able to understand more complicated concepts about how the world works.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2025
  3. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    18,153
    1,296
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    But now, everywhere you look, for the first time the omerta has been lifted: outlets are openly—albeit still in hushed tones—admitting that Ukraine not only faces some vague ‘defeat’, but total capitulation to Russia.

    Simplicius's Garden of Knowledge | Substack
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  4. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    9,504
    2,223
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    Not sure where this is going, but Stalin and Mao absolutely started wars outside their own borders. To a lesser extent (because Cuba never was and never will be a great power), Castro was involved in foreign adventures as well. Grenada and Angola come to mind immediately.
     
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  5. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    14,458
    2,053
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    I was talking about major wars, ones that could possibly result in defeat. I am not counting aggressive military action with no chance of defeat. Both China and Russia did get involved in the Korean War, with the Chinese supplying massive numbers of troops, but the war was not primarily between China and the U.S., so the U.S. was unlikely to drive to Beijing had it been able to do so.
     
  6. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

    11,452
    1,526
    678
    Sep 11, 2022
    You didn't say anything about wars until after I pointed out some of the most brutal dictators in the world are communist regimes with a politburo. You mentioned sham elections, opposition being jailed and killed. Pretty sure all of the examples I cited in my previous post fit that bill. You're wobbling all over the place worse than Joe Biden trying to find his way off a stage.

    Honestly, one would think we'd be less worried about Putin's imaginary goals of repatriating the Soviet bloc given Russia's ineptitude in Ukraine.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    14,458
    2,053
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    No one else looks in the septic tank of the internet for "knowledge" (really, propaganda) like you do. And you really shouldn't open the outlet of a septic tank anyway. Long story short: your sources are crap.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  8. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    18,153
    1,296
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    As long as you have ad hominem, and a keyboard, you believe you can keep Ukraine in this thing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    18,153
    1,296
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    How sad.

    “In five years we won’t be able to sanction anyone.” — Marco Rubio —
     
  10. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    14,458
    2,053
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    Another founder of a pro-Russian paramilitary group bites the dust in a bombing in Moscow. Basically, he picked up most of the Wagner fighters when that group was disbanded.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/03/europe/armen-sarkisyan-bomb-death-moscow-intl-latam/index.html

     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    14,458
    2,053
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    Ukraine does not need my help. They are kicking Russia's ass just fine. Go back to your septic tank and find some wisdom.
     
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 1
  12. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    34,456
    12,396
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    Ukrainian drone strike sets Russian oil, gas plants ablaze, officials say

    A Russian oil refinery and gas processing plant went up in flames after Ukraine fired dozens of drones over the border Sunday night, officials say. Shocking video from Russia’s Astrakhan region shows a large fire engulfing the Astrakhan Gas Processing Plant, spewing embers and black clouds into the hazy night sky.

    A similar fire was reported 300 miles from the frontlines in the Volgograd region, where a fire broke out at a Lukoil oil refinery following the Ukrainian drone barrage.
    ...........................
    Ukrainian officials confirmed the attack hours later, stating that the gas plant hit belonged to Russian gas giant Gazprom, and is capable of processing around 8,340 metric tons of gas condensate a day.

    The oil plant hit overnight was one of Russia’s ten largest refining facilities that processes close to 6% of the nation’s oil, Kyiv claimed.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    34,456
    12,396
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    'Key Russian, North Korean officers killed' in Ukraine's strike on Kursk Oblast command post, Zelensky says

    A Ukrainian strike on a Russian command post in Kursk Oblast killed dozens of Russian and North Korean officers, President Volodymyr Zelensky told the Associated Press on Feb. 2.

    "There was a strong operation by our military — they hit their central command post in the Kursk direction. And they lost key officers of Russia and North Korea," Zelensky said in an interview.

    The strike, allegedly conducted by Ukraine's Missile and Artillery Forces on Jan. 31, targeted the command post of Russia's Kursk group of forces in the city of Rylsk.

    "It was our military target, a fair one. There was a missile attack from our side and various types of weapons; a complex attack was launched against them," Zelensky added.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

    8,505
    904
    558
    Apr 13, 2007
    Ukraine is successfully hitting more oil refineries and further away.

    Last week....
    "Late Tuesday night or early Wednesday morning, Ukrainian drones struck the Nizhny Novgorod oil refinery in Kstovo, in central Russia 520 miles from the front line in northern Ukraine."

    Ukrainian Drones Flew 500 Miles And, In A Single Strike, Damaged 5% Of Russia’s Oil Refining Capacity
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

    8,505
    904
    558
    Apr 13, 2007
    "Many Americans are understandably concerned about the cost of aid to Ukraine. But they are thinking about the issue the wrong way — we should be considering the cost of Ukraine losing.

    Analysis conducted at the American Enterprise Institute has determined that Russia defeating Ukraine would cost American taxpayers an additional $808 billion over what the U.S. has planned to spend on defense in the next five years. This is about seven times more than all the aid appropriated to the Pentagon to help Ukraine since Russia’s 2022 invasion."


    The cost of defeat in Ukraine
     
    • Agree x 3
    • Funny x 1
    • Winner x 1
    • Informative x 1
    • Come On Man x 1
    • Best Post Ever x 1
  16. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    9,504
    2,223
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    Heard the question posed today, "Will Ukraine run out of land before Russia runs out of refineries?"
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  17. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    14,458
    2,053
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    U.S. is sending more aid to Ukraine. In related news, Trump is extorting hundreds of billions of dollars in minerals from Ukraine in exchange for support. The irony, of course, is that Trump will be out of office by the time the war is over and Ukraine cleans itself up enough to start extracting mineral wealth again. And the next president, likely a democrat and not an extortionist, will probably tell Ukraine that they can keep their mineral wealth. Trump will go down in history books as a transactional lowlife, or a Tranny LL. His worshippers will be horrified to learn that they voted for a tranny.

    https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/04/world/trump-ukraine-minerals-military-aid-intl/index.html

     
    • Disagree Bacon! Disagree Bacon! x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  18. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    34,456
    12,396
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    I guess this is how he funds the SWF
     
  19. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

    11,452
    1,526
    678
    Sep 11, 2022
    The irony is that you've boasted many times in this very thread about extracting minerals from Ukraine to a far greater extent, in fact. Do you think Trump is only doing things for the next 4 years or that maybe he wants to leave his children a prosperous country?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1