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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    You’re caught, pathetic, your miserable proxy is getting crushed and Russia is unbowed even after more than three years of your furious typing.
     
  2. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    We would get whipped like we were in the military fighting of both Iraq wars. (To refresh your memory, Iraq lost about 100,000 troops in the first war while we lost 150. We lost maybe one tank to enemy fire while Iraq lost 3300. Only a mental defective would characterize that as an American loss.) Russia, based on its pathetic performance in Ukraine, is not a peer military country to the U.S. We excel at the kind of combat involved with the Ukraine War more than any other country on earth; we have the best technology and the best trained troops, and we usually know how best to use them.

    We do fight by the Geneva Conventions, so we have more trouble with an insurgent enemy that blends in with the local population, but I do not think that would be the case if the U.S. tangled with Russia.

    Obviously, we are not fighting Russia with our own troops for a few reasons:

    1) The ass-kicking we would give Russia would convince them they are in an existential war, and that could result in a nuclear weapons launch. Even though Putin may deny it, he knows that Russia is not currently in an existential war.

    2) We do not want American troops to die needlessly. While U.S. deaths would be a small fraction of Russian deaths, there would still be more than what we would want. This is Ukraine's fight, and they are doing very well at defeating Russia when they are properly supplied.

    3) The costs are much lower in a proxy war than an actual hot war. We do not have to mobilize troops and deal with all of the logistical difficulties of going to war.
     
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  3. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    *yawns* we haven’t won a war since WWII. And guess who did the heavy lifting ? *waits for howling*
     
  4. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

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    He was responding to a poster that you block.
     
  5. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    What other “path” is there? Our government has diplomatic, informational, military, and economic means at its disposal. To say Biden used those, and now Trump is using those, so they are doing the exact same thing is erroneous. There is scope and scale involved in all forms of national power. The Biden Administration never had, or if they did never professed (even secretly to the people who would carry it out), a strategy for defeating Russia. The best you got from Sullivan et al was “we will support Ukraine as long as it takes” without detailing as long as it takes to do what. If we get a couple of months into this thing and it becomes clear that Trump’s approach is similarly astrategic with no sense of goals or how to accomplish them, then I will be the first to concede he is on the same path as Biden.
     
  6. citygator

    citygator VIP Member

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    Trump didnt campaign on escalating US involvement so I am not sure what you are expecting. I understood his tactic was that he was going to call Putin and ask nicely for him to leave and Putin would leave because Trump is so dynamic. But maybe I missed the plan since i was concentrating on his gaffes last season.
     
  7. homer

    homer GC Hall of Fame

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    Putin has a lot of skin in the war. I doubt he settles without keeping a lot, if not all of what he possesses of Ukraine.
     
  8. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    We haven't won a war since WWII? Tell that to Saddam Hussein and I'm referring to the first Gulf War (1990-1991) rather than the second although we won that one too but failed to realize the consequences of the power vacuum in Iraq that we created and although they were relatively minor there was also Grenada in 1983 (not that there was much doubt as to the outcome of a war between over 7,000 US troops and maybe 600 or so Cuban troops and Grenadian police) or Panama in 1989 when there was a similar disparity between the US and Panama.
     
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  9. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Why We Lost in Iraq and Afghanistan, by Daniel Bolger
     
  10. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    That’s what he wants, sure. But then there’s the matter of the enemy he made and what they will settle for.
     
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  11. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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  12. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    really want this to be sabotage

    Russian spy ship catches fire off Syrian coast, crew safe

    A dangerous incident occurred in the Mediterranean Sea, near the coast of Syria. A fire broke out on the Russian spy ship "Kildin." The vessel lost maneuverability for several hours. Despite the serious situation, the Russians refused assistance from other ships in the area.

    The "Kildin" specializes in gathering intelligence. The ship lost maneuverability and was drifting near the Syrian port of Tartus. The incident took place last week, but reports of it only appeared in the media this past Sunday.

    Reports indicate that the fire was serious. Flames and thick smoke were coming from the ship's chimney. The crew was preparing to evacuate, but other Russian vessels did not provide assistance.

    Meanwhile, the cargo ship Milla Moon, flying the flag of Togo, approached the "Kildin" but received orders to move away. The fire was only brought under control after five hours.
     
  13. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Hence the reason we have to fight our wars with other countries’ troops …

     
  14. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Only a mentally disabled person would not recognize that controlling access to resources and actually financially benefitting from extracting and refining and distributing those resources are two different things. It does not take an M.B.A. to figure this out. In another 5-10 years after possessing Ukrainian land AND defeating all resistance on it, Russia might be able to see some profits from Ukraine's mineral resources it has stolen. The problem is that Russia cannot wait another 5-10 years for the income. Russia's economy will collapse in 1-2 years.
     
  15. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    We did not lose the war in Iraq and Afghanistan--we lost the peace. There is a difference, although it may be too subtle for you. A history major would probably be able to understand it, but not a Russophile posting out of his mother's basement. Keep trying, Lee Harvey.
     
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  16. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    that is no small amount of fuel

    Ukraine's strikes burn 882,000 tons of Russian fuel reserves

    Recent attacks on Russian bases where aviation fuel is stored have led to the destruction of 882,000 tons of fuel by Ukrainian armed forces, according to the Ukrainian portal Defense Express. This fuel could have supported up to 900 combat missions for a group of 21 Tu-22M3 aircraft, each consuming 6 tons of fuel per flight hour.

    The Ukrainian armed forces have effectively targeted Russian fuel resources in recent days, resulting in the destruction of a total of 882,000 tons of fuel. The fires caused by these strikes were so intense that they were visible from space. Expert Anatolii Khrapchynskyi noted that this amount of fuel could power 900 combat missions for 21 Tu-22M3 bombers, each requiring 6 tons of fuel per flight hour.
     
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  17. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    What’s the story about the suspension of aid? I’m hearing all foreign aid has been suspended to all countries for three months? Obviously, Trump could have made an exception for Ukraine, but it appears he did not.
     
  18. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Jake Broe covers it pretty well. Essentially, direct military assistance is not in the same category as the foreign aid covered by the order. Nothing changes for Ukraine at this time.

     
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  19. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    I keep seeing conflicting things about military aid specifically - it seems humanitarian aid was cut off to ukraine but maybe not military aid?

    Either way - not really in alignment with putting pressure on putin to end the war.
     
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  20. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    With the JFK files having been declassified I expect to be exonerated any day now.
     
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