Debate: Billy Carson vs. Christian Wes Huff on Jesus, the Bible, and Christianity

Sounds like he whipped everything up from nothing, though, huh? He created the sun by saying "let there be light"? Seriously? You believe that, but think Evolution and The Big Bang Theory needs better support? Then are eagerly willing accept magic as an acceptable alternative without evidence that magic actually exists?

 

Yes, God is omnipotent, and can utter things into being. That's why I proudly declare my allegiance to him.

Your god--literally nothing--somehow, mindlessly did nothing...and everything accidentally just kinda happened. Incredibly magical dumb luck, for milenia...

May your deity, dumb nothing, forever bless you with dumb luck!

Dumb bless you!

 

Btw, Mr Science guy--i noticed you veered away from actual science and evidence.

Looks like your religion--whos deity is nothing dumb luck--equires just as much h faith as mine (the God of Abraham)--to believe in.

 

This is where a lot of these discussions end up, unfortunately ... one guy claiming he has the power of magic to back his opinions and therefore can declare anything is possible and nothing is questionable...

How about you quote the parts of the Big Bang Theory or Darwinism, which are probably to the two biggest competing theories to "magic", where "nothing happened" and "dumb luck" is referenced, because it sounds to me like you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

 

Btw, Mr. Jesus guy, it's hilarious to me when a guy completely invested in fairly tales of magic invisible wizards in the sky, doing things like creating the sun out of words, accuses the other person of "veering away from science and evidence". Think about how that makes you sound...

 

Makes me sound like I'm calling science guy out for not being able to make his own case with science, while pretending to discredit the other guy for not being able to make his case on science.

NB: you were the one who demanded scientific evidence to support God...but can't seem to produce any to support Lord Nothing, the god of dumb luck.

Nite nite... I've got fam to attend to.

 

Not true, I said the guys in the OP can't back their opinions with evidence ... you can't either, and went to the soft minded "it's magic" route.

I think the science behind the Big Bang Theory and Evolution is well known, and has nothing to do with "dumb luck", and I've reference that several times with you, so not sure why are saying I haven't? I think what's happened here is you've backed yourself into the corner, where all you have is magic to fall back on, and are lashing out in anger. Please don't take it out on the fam, we can pick this up tomorrow if you want.

 

I guess I'll just leave this here for now. There have been experiments going on since the 1950s where scientists have tried to recreate the conditions of the formation of life in a controlled environment, basically taking common elements from the earth's surface, and exposing them to heat, cooling, simulated lightning, and other things you'd expect on the surface. What they found, even early on, is that Amino acids would start to form rather readily. (An interesting side note is that the same RNA chemistry was also found in meteors, which means this isn't specific to Earth, and IMO, proves this isn't something that can only happen in a laboratory.) Later, the basis of RNA was "lab grown" too. I remember my organic chem professors talking about this in '96 or '97. It appears another major breakthrough happened in 2019, where they were able to identify the chemistry involved and a plausible way that RNA could have evolved into DNA... this link is over my head, but I get the gist of it. It shows that the building blocks of life, which may have taken billions of years to form on Earth, can be recreated in the lab, and that neither magic, or "dumb luck" are required.

A prebiotically plausible scenario of an RNA–peptide world | Nature

 

Here's a great write up on the original experiments of the 1950s. I've known of this since I took that chem class in 1996, so it has absolutely shaped my views that you don't need magic to explain the origins of life. Under the right conditions, the building blocks of life seem to just readily produce themselves.

Scientists finish a 53-year-old classic experiment on the origins of life | Discover Magazine

Over the next decade, Miller repeated his original experiment with several twists. He injected hot steam into the electrified chamber to simulate an erupting volcano, another mainstay of our primordial planet. The samples from this experiment were among the unexamined vials that Bada inherited. In 2008, Bada’s student Adam Johnson showed that the vials contained a wider range of amino acids than Miller had originally reported in 1953.

Miller also tweaked the gases in his electrified flasks. He tried the experiment again with two newcomers – hydrogen sulphide and carbon dioxide – joining ammonia and methane. It would be all too easy to repeat the same experiment now. But Parker and Bada wanted to look at the original samples that Miller had himself collected, if only for their “considerable historical interest”.

Using modern techniques, around a billion times more sensitive than those Miller would have used, Parker identified 23 different amino acids in the vials, far more than the five that Miller had originally described. Seven of these contained sulphur, which is either a first for science or old news, depending on how you look at it. Other scientists have since produced sulphurous amino acids in similar experiments, including Carl Sagan. But unbeknownst to all of them, Miller had beaten them to it by several years. He had even scooped himself – it took him till 1972 to publish results where he produced sulphur amino acids!

 

that's all well & good I guess, but why let Christians get away with letting their contention be the alternative hypothesis? Demonstration that the world/universe is the result of intelligent design provides 0 evidence that any god did it. If it could be demonstrated that the world/universe is the result of a god, that still provides 0 evidence that the Bible god did it.

 

My favorite version of creation involves the Egyptian god Atum, who created the universe by masturbating.

I suppose this could be called the Big Beat Theory.

 

Yeah, you mentioned the famous theory (Big Bang) authored by a Catholic priest and physicist. Your application of it, is what's flawed.

Here's some light on that:

https://en.unav.edu/web/ciencia-raz...iverso-georges-lemaitre-el-padre-del-big-bang

I draw your attn to the last paragraph where he says he pursues Truth by both paths--science and religion (his Catholic faith) seeking their convergence--at Truth.

....and evolution presumes 2 things: life existent, and a desire/will to live and proliferate--both of which presume intelligence--as a pre-req.

What was this phantom corner i allegedly painted myself into???

(Such a creative imagination you have....)

 

The proverbial primordial soup...

Where all the pieces in the perfect incubator just happened to manifest, then proceed to do what they were designed to do...

Like I said, your Lord Nothing, god of dunb luck, creator of everything, requires at least as much faith to believe in, as the 'God of Abraham.'

 

They may not testify to the 'God of Abraham', but they hardly rule Him out either.

Though with a modicum of deductive reasoning, it absolutely does rule out y'all's 'Lord Nothing, god of incredibly fortuitous happenstance (aka dumb luck) creator of everything' dogma.

 

well, you have no reason to speak from ignorance anymore, since I’ve posted info on the actual scientific studies. You also can’t claim this is the result of a “perfect incubator” in a lab when their work is backed up by the same amino acid chemistry being discovered in meteors, proving it can and does happen in nature. ( Let me let in on a secret, meteors don’t have laboratories on them.) There is no reason to believe in creationism anymore because science has a plausible theory of how went from inorganic materials all the way to DNA … but if you want to continue to believe in the “something from nothing” biblical version, that’s your right as an American.

 

From “The Evolutionary Tales: Rhyme and Reason on Creation/Evolution,” p. 103:

Does this imply design? "Well, yes and no,"
Said the Philosopher. "Yes, I could go
For a Designer if this were the one
And only universe. The odds could run
Too high against a single cosmos that
Just happened to have all we need, all at
The proper strength. Could that be accidental?
But what if ours is just an incidental
Cosmos, one of many worlds? The odds
Get better then, no need for God or gods
If we're just one more branch or variation
Based on the many-worlds interpretation
Of quantum theory. Out of countless worlds,
There's bound to be one full of boys and girls.”

 

Just think of all the worlds 15 year olds have created doing the deed to an old playboy magazine

 

Good Lord...

The 'perfect incubator' I referred to, would be this magnificent little pebble we all ride round and round about the sun, not your silly little laboratory.

According to your faith, this perfect incubator came about by shear incredibly coincidentally convenient happenstance, and all those perfect ingredients just happend along as well, and absent any intelligence or even intelligent design, all these proteins and AA's and such, just luckily fell into place, and proceded to assemble in such ways as to--accidentally mind you--lay foundation for life...

...and then further reassemble themselves--accidentally, of course--so as to....make more of itself, deciding (bc inanimate mindless matter is naturally capable of deciding) that to exist, is good (bc mindlessness understands good vs not good), and not to exist, something to be avoided...

...and to further manage to assemble itself, and reassemble itself, such as to make more specimens of itself, in ever more sophisticated forms...accidentally, mindlessly of course...and continued to do so, until THEN, it accidentally stumbled upon, and developed...

INTELLIGENCE !!!!

Sha-@#$%&'-zam!!

Lol!

You were babbling some idiocy about fairy tales???

 

On this and a host of other issues. Which is why all of this is pointless. Dude doesn't even try.

 

None of what you wrote there, about dumb luck and accidents is part of any actually scientific theory. Science has repeatedly shown that organic compounds and the basis of life will naturally form under conditions that would have been prevalent during the time frame it is known to have happened. You are just inventing claims out of ignorance.

You also seem to not be able to comprehend that even if these theories are proven false someday, that doesn't make the 'sky wizard created everything out of nothing' theory correct...