Why did no one help her? Fatal subway burning exposes New York City’s sad disconnect to humanity

I agree with a lot of your takes but can't get on board with this one. Why should people have to wait for someone to put their hands on someone when they're acting in a threatening manner? Dude went too far and I could understand getting negligent homicide but I'm not gonna go in on the narrative that neeleys actions weren't worthy of intervention. I have a lot of experience with homeless and I imagine I am not threatened by them nearly as much as the average person but there are lines to be crossed and I don't believe you have to wait to have physical contact to remove a threat. I wasn't there but from is a difference in a crazy person yelling and a crazy person threatening in close proximity. Ymmv

 

I get that, but preemptively strangling a guy to death should be reserved for situations where there is a clear threat to life …. I have no problem with restraining a guy until police arrive … but not a choke hold for 10 minutes.

 

Yeah I don't disagree. He went too far with the hold but I can't get with the "harmless homeless man" narrative that polarizes the situation. Not that I believe Trump and the right putting Penny on a pedestal is appropriate although I don't vilify him like some either. If you're going to intervene like that you should know what you're doing

 

I didn’t say that, I said no one would question the methods used to stop a guy that set a person on fire. Preemptively killing a person because you are afraid they MIGHT do something harmful should be illegal. Some witnesses testified he was acting in a threatening way, others testified it was just another Tuesday afternoon on the NY subway with a mentally ill person yelling …. I can’t condone murder based on arbitrary perceptions. I think a person should have to actually do some harm before a 10 minute joke hold is justified.

 

I understand where WDG is coming from but I do think circumstances can change things
1. It was an enclosed subway car. Once the threats were made there was no way to get away from Neely. Once violence started there would be no way to get away from it.
2. I do not believe Penny intentionally killed Neely. He applied a restraining choke hold and Neely was still alive e when paramedics arrived.
3. If my family was in that subway car and a homeless man starts ranting and raving and threatening to kill someone… I’d want every step to be taken BEFORE violence began to stop any chance of it happening.

 

Most people testified he didn't make any actual threats against other passengers, just said things like "I'm not afraid to die", which I can see being taken as an indirect threat. Most people testified he didn't touch or even approach any other passengers, but that he "violently threw his jack on the floor" and made lunging motions. I wouldn't want to be in a subway car with him, but I don't think he did anything that warranted death.

People can be heard on the video evidence telling Penny he was killing the man, so it's not a surprise that he died. I'm not sure if it's true that he was alive when the medics got there, all I see it that he was pronounced dead at a hospital, which isn't unusual, even if he was likely dead when picked up. There is no doubt Penny caused his death.

“He’s dying,” an unseen bystander said in the background of one video. “Let him go!”

If it were me, I'd position myself between my family and the man and change cars at the next stop. In fact, I've done that before in both NY and Paris when crazy people made me uncomfortable ...