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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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    Good points. In my opinion, we (Obama, Trump, Biden) and our allies should have supported Ukraine more aggressively before the war began. It would have been cost-effective and beneficial for everyone involved. As the war progressed, delays in approving advanced weapons like HiMARS, F-16s, and ATACMS, as well as providing more equipment, were costly—especially during the failed 2023 fall offensive. This, combined with the halt in weapon supplies due to MAGA holding up the funding bill in the House, had devastating consequences, including the loss of many of Ukraine’s top soldiers.

    However, at the very start of the war, most people expected Russia to overwhelm Ukraine. I can understand the initial hesitation to send advanced systems, given the risk of them being captured and also not enough time to get there. Vs plane loads of MANPADS, etc. flying in around the clock weeks before it started.

    But as you say, hindsight is 20/20. Looking back at the early posts in this thread is fascinating in light of how things have unfolded.

    Going forward, I anticipate Ukraine may be willing to negotiate a deal that doesn’t require restoring 100% of its original borders. Let’s see what kind of poker players/deal makers the key leaders are. Btw a peace agreement will have a lot of complications- but for another post.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2024 at 6:35 PM
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  2. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    will that be enough to overcome whatever Putin has on djt though or djt's admiration of Putin?

    i can give you 20 reasons not to nominate Matt Gaetz but here we are.

    I hope you are right but there aren't many adults left in the room anymore
     
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  3. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Putin Faces Coup Attempt on Russia's Doorstep

    Russian president Vladimir Putin is facing a potential coup in Abkhazia, a breakaway part of Georgia, whose Russia-sanctioned government has been hit by mass protests.

    Protesters, who seized parliament buildings and attempted to occupy the state's TV studios, are demanding the entire government resigns, following the government's decision to consider a new investment agreement with Moscow, according to BBC news.

    The demonstrators are refusing to leave parliament buildings in the capital, Sukhumi, until their demands are met, after occupying them last week. Their bid to seize the Abkhaz State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company (AGTRK), on November 18, failed after shots were fired, according to the German news outlet Deutsche Welle.

    Abkhazia, a breakaway republic that declared independence from Georgia in 1993, hosts Russian military bases and troops, and has been effectively under Russian control since the Georgia war in 2008, and the current leader is President Aslan Bzhania.
     
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  4. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole Premium Member

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    The Biden Admin's continuous worry about escalation caused every thing to show up a week late and a dollar short. From the M-142's to F-16's to the ATACMS, everything showed up too late to really make a significant operational difference that could change the calculus. It was almost if the Biden Admin sending Ukraine into a box ring with telling them not to punch their opponent but do not get knocked out either.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2024 at 3:17 PM
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  5. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    I’ll add that this Administration has ceded initiative to the enemy at every step. I can’t think of one decision that was not reactive to a Russian move instead of proactive to get ahead of the Russian decision cycle.
     
  6. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    As you probably know, I have no special love for the man for lots of reasons. But, sorry, there is just no evidence that Russia “has something” on him. We can say there’s a video of him being pissed on by Russian prostitutes a thousand times, but that video won’t magically manifest on the thousand and first saying if it doesn’t actually exist.

    As far as, Trump’s expressed “admiration,” I share your concern. It could be a negotiation technique, though one I wouldn’t use personally. I note that he had similar praise of that idiot Kim Jong Un before Trump realized he wasn’t dealing with a serious person and walked away from the negotiations. Could be something like that. Can’t tell yet.

    With you 100% on Gaetz. I have no explanation for that one either. I leave my trust in the Senate to make an end to that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2024 at 4:38 PM
  7. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    to be fair, they were letting them use their left..don't think djt wants them to even have that option but hope I am worng.

    after watching him sell out the kurds and the afghans (not even a seat at the table), I have little faith that common sense and sage advise will override his hate for Z and admiration/indebtedness for Putin.
     
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  8. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    I hear you once more. Neither one of us are particularly enthusiastic about having him on the metaphorical throne again. But, for better or worse, he is the person our people have chosen to lead us for the next four years, and that gives him much (but not complete) sway on foreign policy regarding Ukraine. I, again, am hopeful for a change of heart from things he has said to this point for the reasons I have stated. All we can do is see how things play out.
     
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  9. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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    I wonder how much leverage Putin and Trump have over Zelenskyy. Will the negotiations simply involve giving Putin what he wants, short of handing him the entire country? Zelenskyy must have some agency, right, especially with the EU’s backing? However, the EU either didn’t or couldn’t step in enough during the months when MAGA held up the support bill.
     
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  10. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    Thankfully some leaders with character of NATO nations are discussing ways to step up if the US shirks its responsibility. One thing being openly considered is not only using the interest from Russia's seized assets, but to be able to use the assets themselves to aid Ukraine. All for that, Russia has forfeited its rights to those assets.
     
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  11. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Not even sure it would bother Trump if it did manifest.
     
  12. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Why do you assume Trump is trying to help Russia and Putin? At the end of the day, Russia stands a much larger chance of spoiling Trump's 2nd term than Ukraine. In terms of leverage, I would say Ukraine has plenty. A pledge of neutrality gives them suddenly the upper hand, in fact.
     
  13. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, I’m not sure it would, either. “Just look at my virility …”
     
  14. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Musk threatening to shut off starlink and cut their communications if they don't listen to his favorite new orange puppet?..there is a reason djt had him on the call with Z
     
  15. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    occam's razor in my world

    russians use kompromat as a way of doing business and have for a long time, long before it was widely known
    djt has a stated fondness for women, especially young tall blond ones
    djt has been to Moscow multiple times on business, as recently as 2016, right before he announced and promptly gained russian support
    djt has long has russian funding sources, either directly or via guarantees through deustche bank
    nobody knows yet where the cash to buy the scottish and irish golf courses came from
    it isn't hard to connect the dots
     
  16. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    how long before he threatens NATO?

    I can already see him telling UK to pick the EU or USA in a trade war
     
  17. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    undersea cable between Finland and Germany severed shortly after Russia says it is pissed about new NATO base in Rostock Germany on the Baltic Sea

    Germany, Finland warn of 'hybrid warfare' after sea cable cut
    Germany and Finland launched a probe Monday after an undersea cable linking the countries was severed, warning of the threat of "hybrid warfare" amid heightened tensions with Russia. The countries' foreign ministers said in a joint statement they were "deeply concerned" by the cutting of the communications link through the Baltic Sea, where tensions have increased since Russia's 2022 invasion of Ukraine.

    "Our European security is not only under threat from Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine, but also from hybrid warfare by malicious actors." "Safeguarding our shared critical infrastructure is vital to our security," they added.

    Finnish network operator Cinia said earlier that the cable between Finland and Germany, both members of the NATO military alliance, had been cut for unknown reasons. The fault was detected in the undersea cable C-Lion1, Cinia said in a statement, adding that all services provided by the cable were down.

    A Cinia spokesman quoted by Finnish media added that "all the fibre connections in it are cut". "At the moment there isn't a possibility to assess the reason for the cable break but these kinds of breaks don't happen in these waters without an outside impact," the spokesperson said.