War in Ukraine

Do you know if the AFU achieved their operational goals for this operation? If you do not know that, than you cannot say if their operation was a success or not.

 

Well, asked and answered: you are using a word without understanding its meaning ... again. I mean, I get it. I don't know, for instance, what a "writ of certiorari" means. And that's understandable. I never went to law school, and I haven't had 25 years' experience writing, enforcing, and/or interpreting the law. The best I can say for myself is that I would probably look up the definition before posting about it on here.

You seem to believe that every time a land force marches backwards it is a retreat. This is not the case. In layman's terms, a "retreat" is an unplanned, disorganized affair, usually resulting from having been routed on the battlefield. Contrary to what you may have seen on TV, there is no "order" for a retreat. It just happens spontaneously in the ranks due to discipline breaking on the battlefield. Characteristics include heavy friendly casualties caused by the pursuing enemy forces; shattering of unit cohesion; and leaving behind dead, wounded, functional equipment, items of intelligence value, etc. A "withdrawal" or "retrograde," however, is planned and organized. There can be many reasons for a withdrawal, such as getting friendly troops out of a salient where they might be cut off, or (as you should be familiar with by now) trading space for time. If done poorly, of course, a withdrawal can turn into a retreat, but then there would be the evidence of heavy casualties, lost equipment, and so on. For a historical example, during the Korean War when the Chinese achieved strategic surprise during their intervention in late 1950, the U.S. 2nd Infantry Division was shattered and retreated in piecemeal fashion back to South Korea with heavy casualties and losing much of its kit. By contrast, the First Marine Division, though hit by a larger Chinese force than 2ID, stayed intact and marched to the sea in a deliberate, organized manner, largely maintaining (or purposefully destroying) its equipment and suffering far fewer casualties.

So based on the doctrinal definitions of "retreat" and "withdrawal" as well as the evidence we have before us today, is Ukraine retreating from Kursk?

@CaptUSMCNole, any thoughts to add?

 

I would say an even better question would be what was Ukraine's strategic goal? I have heard it postulated that Ukraine intended to force Russia into another round of mobilization, which Putin really, really, really did not want to do. If that was Ukraine's goal, then the word is that it has worked.

 

You absolutely have a dog in this fight. You have made it clear that it's in your domestic political interest for Ukraine to lose. Ukraine just isn't cooperating. I'm not sure it really matters at this point, since even Ukraine surrendering right this moment won't make Trump stop from being his own worst enemy and alienating swing voters. I hope after his inevitable electoral defeat is an established fact you can drop this partisan BS and get on board with doing right by Ukraine. It's in the whole country's interest for Russia to lose, not just the Democrats.

 

I genuinely LOL’d at this while taking a piss in a public restroom.

 

Hope you didn't get any piss on your phone.

 

This is why I don’t want to touch other people’s phones when they offer to show me something.

 

Pro tip. Another is, never inadvertently scroll right or left when someone shows you a picture. As Dr. Zaius warned us, "You may not like what you find."

 

Never that. Mad skills, bro. If you haven't yet learned how to read a text without getting piss everywhere, you ain't tryin'.

 

I'm glad that you are smart enough to manage bodily functions in public and a cell phone. You very much have a dog in this fight, even if you don't realize it. Anyone who sees you whine about federal spending can see it coming: if Ukraine loses, the U.S. will spend a huge amount of money (hint: even more than we currently spend) on national defense. And if a democrat happens to be in office, you will wail about what a criminal waste of money it is. Well guess what? The need for that spending can directly be tied to the unwillingness of foolish republicans to support Ukraine. Spend a dollar now, save ten dollars down the road. Pinch a penny now, and watch your life savings get flushed down the toilet at some point in the near future. Try to see past your own nose, okey-dokie?

 

Ah, Dr. Zaius. Another orange god, but an intelligent one.

 

It could also be that Ukraine needed a PR victory to sell internally. It is going to be a long winter and seeing the AFU taking the fight to Putin in his own country is going to help the Ukrainians keep their fighting spirit during it.

 

Ukraine successfully strikes major Russian munitions depot with magnificent effects. Possibly largest explosions of the war to date.

Ukraine hits Russia with "massive drone attack" on military depot in Toropets, causing huge explosions - CBS News

 

Uftaipan,
To quote the late great Chesty Puller,
RETREAT HELL, WE JUST GOING IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION!

 

Some USMC history nerd corrections necessary: First, I believe that was Major General Oliver P. Smith, Commanding General of the 1st Marine Division who said that (often it is misattributed to Chesty Puller). Second, he said fighting in a different direction, which was wholly true since the Chinese had managed to surround the Marines and get elements between them and the sea.

 

Thank you for the correct. I thought that was Chesty, I didn't do my research! Yeah Chosin Reservoir was not a happy time. I actually had a conversation with a veteran that was on the front line when the Chinese made the big assault. He kept talking about how they kept blowing Bugles and how miserably cold it was.

 

Russia literally said the drones were shot down and this caused some fires. I wonder if the Russian population actually believes this.

It’s crazy that this depot is East - North East of Moscow, and north of Belarus. Russia can’t feel great about that.

 

Holy cow!

That is impressive!

 

Storm Shadow?

 

Just drones according to reports.