Steve Spurrier decries sale of AR-15s after Georgia high school mass shooting

Actually, you almost always knew what you were going to get with Steve Spurrier, a win.

 

I don’t disagree. But what is the solution if not addressing the absurd proliferation of guns in this country? Do we go the Jurassic Park route and only have female babies going forward?

 

The world is a big scary place for right-wingers. You need your own personal armory to protect yourself.

 

With insurance you cant be liable to yourself, and since the greatest odds are that a gun will be used on someone in the household (who you also cant be liable to), whether accidentally or on purpose its really not much of a risk factor for insurance companies unless you shoot your neighbor/pizza delivery guy or something. The biggest firearms risk for insurance is theft, and there is usually a hard limit on what they will pay out on firearms for a theft claim (without endorsement it can be as low as like $2500 total).

 

Unfortunately not much you can do with guns because of the 2nd amendment and how the govt is structured. Only way to force gun legislation is to have a constitutional amendment or federal govt redo. That isn't happening with our divided Dem/pub dynamics. And neither side is going to budge much from the 50-50, too much $ involved.

Massive proliferation of guns? That is subjective. We had guns in high schools and truck windows 50+ years ago and we didn't have this problem. They are killing kids (helpless) because it's an easy target. They aren't going into the biker bars trying this because they would probably be gang raped and sodomized before there slow death.

I think it's more societal than anything. An example I like to use is, especially here in Florida, there is a gun range that serves drinks and food here in Central FL, I won't name names, but anyone from the silent or great generation would think that is completely foolish, and it's something the want-to-be rednecks think is cool. It's a modern thing that is completely stupid IMHO. Anything that becomes or tries to become mainstream from the left or right is beyond moronic.

Until our society rejects the fringe, things will continue to get worse.

 

The M16A1 was used in Vietnam in full auto in some cases depending on the situation. It was definitely capable of full auto.

 

True, but the military had gone away from that after Vietnam because it was a waste of ammunition. But the reason I didn’t bring it up is because 2A proponents say that the AR-15 is not a combat weapon because it’s not fully auto like the M16A1. I think it’s a ridiculous argument, but I’ll just concede it to get that nonsense out of the way. The M16A2 had replaced auto with a three round burst (that we never used), and the M4 initially was the same. We fought wars with infantry carrying M4 as a primary weapon in semi-auto mode.

 

I don't understand the point of civilians owning AR-15s. They aren't ideal for home protection. The long barrel can telegraph the homeowners position to an armed intruder and the 5.56 round will rip right through any interior walls in the home. Handguns or shotguns are much more practical. In the closest quarter room-clearing US SOCOM units often used MP5s because of their compact size and lower risk of wall penetration but at least one squad member would go in with a shotgun. M4s were used on some occasions because they were always available and a lot of CQC takes place in buildings with concrete walls.

FYI, the M4 is being replaced with the Sig Sauer MX7.

 

I think he is saying a football coach isn't an expert on what guns should be legal. Just because we all love Steve, doesnt give him a special place at this table. He never said he couldnt discuss rampant gun violence in America.

 

AR-15s became mainstream because of video games and because they were handed out to the police post 9/11. I never saw a police officer with an AR walking around until the fed pumped billions into homeland security and police depts. I'm not blaming them for it, but it has led to criminals to elevate there weapons. If your neighbors have nukes, you want them too type of thing.

 

It's kind of important to be able to identify and confirm that the suspected home invader is, in fact, a home invader before you use deadly force against them. True, lights can give your position away, but that is why you don't keep them on and stand there. You turn them on momentarily and move. Bright lights also are disorienting and can be used as a compliance tool.

This is the reason low light weapons training is a thing.

 

Full auto (and 3-round burst) is useful for squad-based maneuvers like laying down suppressive fire, or a need to stop multiple aggressors in close proximity. That said, usually on a squad the guy carrying the belt-fed gun is going to be doing these things because you're going to run through your mags really quickly on with a carbine. Troops tend to run in semi-auto because most of their shooting will be done that way because you typically don't actually engage a target with intent to remove that target from the fight in full auto mode, especially at any sort of distance. You have limited ammo and you need to conserve that ammo.

Without that function, the M4 (or AR-15) is no more deadly than any other magazine-fed semi-auto 5.56 rifle

You're sort of correct, but sort of not.

Shotguns are carried primarily because they are good for breaching doors. They can also be effective in combat, but you're limited in capacity and reloading is more difficult. Alright if you're part of a squad with a role and people are covering you, but limiting if you're on your own and need to engage multiple targets.

The reason many units moved away from MP5s for CQB is that you have to actually get to the buildings you are clearing and, if you think about Iraq or Afghanistan or our other theaters we have operated in, you needed to be able to engage at distance. Thus, the need for platforms like the Mk18, which is essentially an M4 platform with a 10.3" barrel. It's not terribly effective at distance, but has more effective range than an MP5 while being manageable in close quarters and sharing the same ammo, magazines, and other parts. Special forces units now have moved away from the MP5 and now tend to use suppressed 300 blackout rifles. The size is similar to the MP5 but you have the option of running subsonic ammo with pistol caliber performance for sentry removal or supersonic ammo with rifle level performance for other purposes.

The irony is, however, that due to the NFA, even if a civilian wanted to run an MP5 (or similar platform) and reap the benefits of its size, they wouldn't be easily able to do so. They'd either have to run a 16" barrel making CQB less practical, run without a stock, making the platform less accurate, or pay a $200 tax and wait months for ATF permission. Also re: over penetration, a shotgun with ammo that is effective against 2-legged predators is going to rip through walls just as well as an AR-15, and you've got multiple liabilities with every trigger pull. An AR can also run frangible or other ammunition that is effective but significantly less likely to overpenetrate than even 9mm. Much of overpenetration concerns have much more to do with ammo selection than anything to do with the platform itself.

Also, the XM7 is an evolution of the AR platform. Essentially a sig sauer designed short stroke piston AR-10 platform that shoots specially designed ammunition.

 

He’s entitled to his opinion. So what. There’s a lot of opinions on here about this issue. There’s a lot opinions by both gun and non-gun owners out there. Both sides have their merits.

For home defense there is no right bullet or weapon. Make your choices. A 9mm, a .380 or .22 will go through modern housing materials to include hollow points. Hollow points expand in soft tissue.

I have a 10mm at my bed side for protection. I carry when traveling. I can add a suppressed .300 Blackout AR pistol with subsonic controlled expansion rounds for special occasions. Particularly if we have a natural disaster that brings out the best of society. Otherwise it and my other ARs live in a safe in the basement. I don’t live in central Florida though.

The house is a pre-matchstick era house. I have brick. If something should happen in the basement there is cinder block and brick. Should someone or some people break in, we can barricade in the master bedroom down a hallway as a last stand. If we react fast enough before they get in the house; 1) I’ll let them know we’re armed and the cops are on the way. 2) If they’re in the house, they have to come down a hall to get to us. That hall is my funnel of fire/death/doom if it came to that. There are two interior walls, two large pieces of furniture and an exterior brick wall for strays to go through. It affords my neighbors some protection if I ever had to shoot in that direction. The barricade allows us a decent measure of safety and protection. The intruder(s) have to break down a door, deal with gunfire, and go through furniture. I don’t think criminals want that level of frustration. I would rather let the police clear my house if we barricaded. I’m not Superman. The barricade is my preferred option for obvious reasons. I really don’t want to shoot anyone.

I have lights on my home guns for good reasons. Lights can stun and disorient intruders. Adding a light also lets you identify who’s going bump in the night coming down the hall. It could just be your kid or house guest stumbling around getting a glass of water. Maybe it’s your kid sneaking back in the house. Who knows.

If a military style weapons ban happens? Oh well. Something needs to be done.

Addressing the bullying and being ostracized by your classmates is the other 900lb gorilla that’s being over looked. How many of these shooters decided this was the only way to stop the bullying?

A quick primer on over penetration.

Defensive Shooting Indoors: The Overpenetration Problem

 

It's a horrible weapon for home defense. Longer barrel makes it harder to move around corners, even longer with suppressor. High velocity rounds easily punching thru walls to hit family members and neighbors. If you require that many rounds for home defense, maybe less time on too hot and more range time is in order.

 

Have you ever shot something like 300 blackout subsonic?

 

I’m not trying to clear my house, I’m perfectly happy to get stationary at a choke point. And “assault weapon” doesn’t necessarily mean 5.56 or high velocity, plus there are work arounds to the barrel length issue if you care enough about it to deal with them.

Yep, but I’m not personally shooting subs for home defense, and I’ve yet to find anything other than .22 subs that are actually movie quiet. You can certainly get less loud, but “pffft” isn’t a real noise, even suppressed, for anything other than a .22 IME.

 

I was sitting with a friend in the stands at a Gator basketball game back in the day and we were discussing what to grab for dinner afterwards when they announced at halftime that Spurrier would be having a 1 on 1 mini basketball shooting contest against some other coach. Our section would get free pizza if Spurrier won.

I turned to him and said, "There's our dinner. And it will be free."

SOS did not disappoint. He got into a crouch and threw the balls like baseballs off the mini backboard, banking them in from straight on. It was a blowout win and the pizza tasted great.

 

I don't think assault weapon means anything but if your talking about ARs and weapons in general, I have a pretty good idea on calibers and a much better idea than most on how to use them.
Seems like you have some sort of fantasy playing out about home defense so maybe an AR is best for you. I would get camo everything to be sure.
Maybe less money buying weapons and more money moving to a better neighborhood, your hood seems dangerous.

 

As I’ve already noted, mine personally isn’t an AR (or “AR family” even) in the first place, although it is a rifle and would be covered by basically any assault weapons ban that has ever been proposed.

It’s a gun that I mostly own because it’s really fun to shoot, but if something’s going bump in the night at my house it’s 100% what I’m going for over any pistol or shotgun because it’s an objectively better option than either of those for what I want it to do.

 

They would not be my choice for defending from inside a frame home because of the bullets going through the walls of the home. Barrel length is not a issue for me as they handle really well and fast. Where they could be needed to defend a business or home would be if there was a group of people even 3 or 4 trying to enter the home or business to cause harm to the people inside. In that situation it would be my first choice and I would like to have it as a option and hope to never need it just like any other gun. They are fun to shoot and build and the ammo is affordable. It is a shame that we have so many nuts that are using them to harm people and are going to make it where responsible gun owners can't have them or at least can't have the larger capacity magazines.