Henry Kimbro now recognized as the 1947 MLB batting champion

Well.boss, im not trolling but rather making the.point of re writing history that did not happen is silly to.me. im not taking away from any great players accomplisments , just saying that IMO you cant lead a league in a statistic that you never played in. Was it an injustice? Sure, but trying to compare stats that didnt actually happen is just silly. Was Josh Gibson the GOAT. I dont know and no one can prove it one way or the other.

 

If nobody cares now and this is silly nonsense, then why not include the statistics of all professional players from that era?

How is it “silly nonsense” yet in the next paragraph you argue broadening our view diminishes dead white guys? I have no problem with someone arguing that there should be two record books, but what you then get is the “official records” that cite white players and the “negro league” records that are not as recognized. Folks have every right to be fine with that.

Conversely, it is a rational position to look at black athletes today, and in the past, and assume: “hey, bet those guys could play ball. Maybe their stats are just as legitimate as white players of the time and we should open our minds to think about who of those dead guys was the best statistically?” This position has the added benefit of not excluding the dead guys who were excluded just because of the color of their skin, again, from being considered when discussing the best players of all time.

 

I stepped back to think about this discussion and decided it's pretty bizarre. MLB treats the Negro Leagues as major leagues and includes their stats in MLB records. It also includes stats for the pre-WW I Federal League, but not the chaotic 1946 Mexican League. An assertion above is that including stats of those Negro League players constitutes "rewriting history that did not happen." In fact the Negro Leagues did actually happen, but not only were the players excluded from white teams, their very existence was denied and was not included in WHITE history.

MLB knew there would be a backlash from desegregating baseball records in the same way desegregating the game itself had a backlash and in the same way desegregating American society continues to have a backlash. Fortunately for those who care, a little fiddling with the data filters allows a fan to look at player stats WITHOUT having to see stats of Negro League players. It takes a little effort to do that exclusion, just as such exclusion always has required. The concept of desegregation expects that when formerly excluded people are allowed to live openly as a part of the greater community, familiarity will make living together easier. That change is gradual, not instantaneous, but one can hope.

https://www.mlb.com/stats/batting-average/1947

 

Some might say this pic diminishes white players in the HOF, I'll argue Bowie Kuhn diminished white people in general, especially with those shoes.

 

I don't think anyone has an issue with these guys being in the baseball HOF. Awarding them titles for accomplishments in a league they never played in is a whole other thing.

 

I've stayed away from this one long enough. This is a convoluted discussion filled with plenty of good thoughts on an important topic for our world today and yesterday as well. I passed a road sign that summed it up nicely for me. "Gone are the good ole days when you could have no opinion about something and not offend someone."

That said, I would like to preface this by saying I am all for the inclusion of the Negro League stats regardless of the past that we all came from. I would also be in favor to include the stats from any Cuban "Pro" Leagues, Japanese Leagues, Puerto Rico Leagues, Venezuela Leagues, MLB Minor Leagues, etc. that compare to the talent levels of them all. I think that's the tough part here but since this is all about inclusion maybe they all should be included since every league has different levels of talent and every team in every league has different talent levels. I'm sure if you compare the talent levels of MLBs best teams from the Yankees, Dodgers, the Big Red Machine, and so forth to the worst teams of those eras you could say some players were excluded from these lists, even if race wasn't a factor. Sure the argument is about racial differences and the unjust past. But I'm sure plenty of players from other countries also had some great stats while facing some great players as well. In the end, I guess baseball will have to decide if baseball is a world wide game and recognize the best talent in any location.

 

That was the American way of life in those days. It was the wrong way, but it was who we were in those days. The reports findings proved wrong, but while baseball has benefitted greatly from desegregation, white Americans use similar- but different- rationalizations to maintain vestiges of de facto segregation. We definitely are doing much better now, but...

 

There is no perfect resolution to the problem of keeping players of color out of MLB back in the day.

To deny that they existed is not a solution I want.

 

Hell, include College stats as well

 

I don’t have a strong position here I think the asterisk is our friend here put an asterisk by all stats when the game was segregated. Acknowledge the situation and don’t blame anyone who played the game.

 

I hit 600 in little league one year.

 

I hit .667 and was third in the league