Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!
  1. Hi there... Can you please quickly check to make sure your email address is up to date here? Just in case we need to reach out to you or you lose your password. Muchero thanks!

Two American Families

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by oragator1, Aug 12, 2024.

  1. oragator1

    oragator1 Hurricane Hunter Premium Member

    23,342
    6,040
    3,513
    Apr 3, 2007
    This PBS documentary might be in the top 3 best I have ever watched. Bill Moyers followed 2 working class families from 1991 to 2024, it tells the story of the middle class decline through their eyes and their very personal and honest struggles.
    Nobody probably even noticed, but I haven’t posted anything political here since the day Trump was shot at, nor do I really plan to til after the election at a minimum. I didn’t even understand why that was the trigger, but this doc focused for me that, in short, this forum isn’t reality. Everyone here is of course entitled to their beliefs, and some issues raised here are valid and important. However this is a board of largely older white college educated men, and I would bet that the median net worth on this board is a million dollars or more. Society has largely worked for the people here, so many of the discussions are on things like tampons, crowd sizes, anecdotal one offs that “prove” someone’s POV, and other semi meaningless things. And we aren’t alone, everyone nationally is seemingly segregated in their discussions and by extension viewpoints, leading to almost irreversible silos of contact and even more anger. And even eventually guys like the shooter. So that makes much of our “discourse” wasted or even negative energy.

    Meantime, this documentary is the reality for a good chunk of the country, their anger is real and justified, but politicians simply exploit it to win votes while doing nothing to fix it, blaming whatever is politically expedient for them. Until this gets fixed, if it even can be, all the other esoteric battles pale, because without a vibrant engaged middle class we will never succeed as a nation.
    Yes it’s long (movie length) but it’s well worth your time.

    Two American Families | FRONTLINE

    now back to my hole :).
     
    • Like x 14
    • Fistbump/Thanks! x 5
    • Informative x 5
    • Winner x 3
    • Agree x 1
    • Best Post Ever x 1
  2. Orange_and_Bluke

    Orange_and_Bluke Premium Member

    10,323
    2,544
    3,288
    Dec 16, 2015
    I noticed you took a break.
    Welcome back.
    You’re one of the best.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  3. LimeyGator

    LimeyGator Official Brexit Reporter!

    I would love to watch that. Does it air abroad?
     
  4. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

    7,925
    831
    558
    Apr 13, 2007
    It’s a watch if the documentary is half as good as your post. Outstanding.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  5. citygator

    citygator VIP Member

    12,048
    2,629
    3,303
    Apr 3, 2007
    Charlotte
    You put together a well written advert for the documentary. I am intrigued, although the connection to the shooter seems a stretch as his motivations are unknown and likely more about troubled youth than anything related to the shrinking middle class that his family was seemingly comfortably residing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. NavyGator93

    NavyGator93 GC Hall of Fame

    1,963
    759
    2,663
    Dec 4, 2015
    Georgia
    Could you use VPN thru the US? I use VPN all the time for some bbc stuff and for German Netflix.
     
  7. gator_jo

    gator_jo GC Hall of Fame

    1,928
    249
    193
    Aug 9, 2024
    I'm interested to try and watch this. But if this is just another: "Understand them - they just vote for Trump because they're angry!" piece.....

    .....I'm pretty short on sympathy for people who are angry that the system failed them, and who vote against their own self interest, but can't bother to learn who's helped them. Specifically: the last two Dem administrations got health insurance for 10s of millions, lowered drug prices, protected overtime pay, and on and on. The last Republican Administrations helped people by......?

    And that wasn't to -and didn't- turn this thread partisan. But facts do matter.
     
    • Agree x 2
    • Disagree Bacon! x 2
    • Come On Man x 2
    • Best Post Ever x 2
    • Like x 1
    • Dislike x 1
    • Funny x 1
  8. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

    11,249
    2,005
    3,128
    Jan 5, 2010
    Maine
    I think it has a few broads in it.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  9. oragator1

    oragator1 Hurricane Hunter Premium Member

    23,342
    6,040
    3,513
    Apr 3, 2007
    It’s completely apolitical. Read the comments below in that link, there are basically zero negative comments on it. It’s got an 8.4 on IMDB, which in today’s world alone tells you it’s not political.
    What makes it great isn't some big insight or POV. Moyers only talks to set up background with an occasional interview with them. It’s that you basically get to see two families for their entire adult life, and what it means to have been working class as the manufacturing jobs left and the struggles that continue to today. And how open the families are about letting you in with them, their hopes, their realities, their successes, their losses etc. it’s truly a unique look at working class America, and Moyers does it by letting their day to day lives show you.
    And actually, these two families are remarkably not angry, at least with what is shown, which makes it even more meaningful and poignant.
     
    • Informative Informative x 5
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  10. gator_jo

    gator_jo GC Hall of Fame

    1,928
    249
    193
    Aug 9, 2024
    I'll try to check it out.

    I agree with you about the generalized membership of this forum: educated and affluent. To generalize, of course.

    I'm also very impressed that the majority of them tend to "vote against their own interests" at times, by supporting policies that help those less fortunate, rather than always seeking to maximize their own short-term wealth. Or that value a long term approach to our prosperity. On issues such as the environment. Or equality.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Bacon! Disagree Bacon! x 1
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 1
  11. slocala

    slocala VIP Member

    3,310
    785
    2,028
    Jan 11, 2009
    Frontline theme trumpet. If you know, you know.
     
  12. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

    30,270
    1,912
    2,218
    Apr 19, 2007
    Well I'm convinced, capitalism and the American political system has failed much of the population, we should do something about that
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. Orange_and_Bluke

    Orange_and_Bluke Premium Member

    10,323
    2,544
    3,288
    Dec 16, 2015
    The change starts with you.
    Why don’t you make a large donation since capitalism has failed you?
    Step up.
     
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  14. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

    8,954
    882
    2,843
    Apr 16, 2007
    The shooter was from a middle class family with both parents working professional jobs. So yeah… not sure of that connection. If we want to blame “society” for that kid maybe we could point to social media/internet rabbit holes, but I haven’t really seen particular evidence on that either (kid must have had a low profile).

    I don’t think anyone disagrees that there is a “disappearing middle class” problem and a growing wealth gap. The question is how to address it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2024
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. oragator1

    oragator1 Hurricane Hunter Premium Member

    23,342
    6,040
    3,513
    Apr 3, 2007
    The point of me saying that is that somehow some way, he came to believe his view was so right and important that he decided to make the decision for the entire country. It’s a symptom of a much larger problem we have, everyone thinks they are right because they are largely in echo chambers that don’t challenge their views.
    But leave that statement out if you want, it shouldn’t become the taking point of my OP.
     
    • Disagree Bacon! Disagree Bacon! x 1
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  16. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

    30,270
    1,912
    2,218
    Apr 19, 2007
    What makes you think he even had a coherent view? Most school shooter types don't, at least politically. They just want to inflict pain on others before they take themselves out. That's just nihilism, and most people don't take whatever anger they have at the world and go there. Shooting the president is a way to make a name for yourself and achieve some bizarre kind of immortality.
     
  17. ursidman

    ursidman VIP Member

    14,366
    22,654
    3,348
    Sep 27, 2007
    Bug Tussle NC
    Thanks for the link. This kind of subject matter always interests me. Will definitely watch it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

    22,629
    1,398
    2,008
    Apr 3, 2007
    Great take; will definitely watch.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
  19. phatGator

    phatGator GC Hall of Fame

    5,688
    5,290
    2,213
    Dec 3, 2007
    Dayton, Ohio
    Did you watch both shows?
     
  20. oragator1

    oragator1 Hurricane Hunter Premium Member

    23,342
    6,040
    3,513
    Apr 3, 2007
    It was made in three parts over the years, the other two had been aired years ago, so the 2024 one has the 2013 and original one in it, that’s why it’s so long.
     
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1