How do we not have a proven PG in the fold ? Hate that Clayton is going to be a distributor rather than a catch / shoot guy . Hope we will figure it out . Damn , Pullin was awesome
Not a fan of this move, but we will see. As for Martin … he was not, is not and will not be a pg. I posted it when he signed, and TG later said similar… he will be used in ball screen action. That is the extent to which he will be a primary ball handler.
In this age of posiionless basketball, you can call it whatever you want. I suspect there won't be a primary ballhandler, but effectively two or even three combo guards at all times
Me neither. But, if it doesn’t work out, we have options and should score more if Clayton moves to SG. It could work if Clayton controls TO’s and runs the offense efficiently. He is one hell of an athlete and is crazy competitive so we’ll see.
Then I expect the PG duties will primarily be handled by Clayton, Klavzar, and Denzel. First couple of games, Walter starts. After that, it's anybody's guess. But my guess is Klavzar.
Clayton and Martin on the court together is likely our best combo for the 1/2 - matchups depending... If that proves to be true then one of them will have to "be the pg" and WC would appear to be the logical choice, but as mentioned many times - last year was more the outlier with having such a gifted ball handler. I'm also guessing we'll be more positionless. I think we're all feeling a bit naked at the 1 w/o Pullin, but we have to have faith that TFG has it sorted out. If lack of a PG to facilitate the O is our downfall for 24/25- then we can second guess all we want....
With this continuity ball screen action and some of the double post stuff Golden likes to run, he is a little more traditional in terms of his personnel. It's almost like he prefers two point guards, or at least one point guard and one combo-ish guard. Key thing is he wants multiple guys who can create off the ball screen, initiate sets, create for themselves and others. One thing I'm not worried about with Golden is his point guards being inefficient creating offense or taking care of the ball. He has always had at least one, if not two guys who can do that. 2023-24: Pullin (24.7 assist rate, 8.8 turnover rate); Clayton (15.1 assist rate, 12.9 turnover rate) 2022-23: Lofton (20.3 ast, 14.2 to); Jones (17.8 ast, 15.0 to) 2021-22:Bouyea (21.4 ast, 13.2 to); Shabazz (13.2 ast, 10.7 to) 2020-21: Bouyea (25.2 ast, 13.6 to) 2019-20: Bouyea (20.7 ast, 16.6 to) Those two stats measure slightly different things, so but a 20+ assist rate is great, and anything below a 15 turnover rate is very solid. What Pullin did last year was phenomenal, but it was also by far his best season taking care of the ball. Same thing for Lofton the year before. I think it's basically a trend in Golden's offense.
All of these things you say are true, but I still don't think he has a handle like Pullin, and IIRC, coaches were pressing us at the end of the season just to wear Pullin out and making him much less efficient on offense at the end of games. He (Pullin) wasn't as explosive finishing at the rim and his shots were short from tired legs. We can't have Clayton worn out at the end of the games from breaking the press and running the offense. Just my 2 cents, but maybe Clayton has worked on his ball handling this off season. I just don't want him to be spent in the final minutes, because of how lethal he can be.
WC turned the ball over about twice as much as ZP last season even though ZP seemed to have the ball in his hands twice to three times as much as WC. My guess and hope is that we move the ball much more than we did last season. ZP, by himself, gave us an inside/out and ball reversal game that is going to have to be done as more of a team effort this coming season.
I would love to see the lineup data here. First of all, Pullin didn't sit that much. Second, it had far more to do with Kugel and Richard being on the floor together, since both were terribly inconsistent, than with Clayton at the one. But, third, OF COURSE there would be a drop-off, because Pullin played out of his mind. He was as productive a point guard as we've had on this campus in the last several decades. Any team at any level would have something of a dip without its star point guard. That said, despite taking several steps up in competition Pullin last year also significantly outperformed himself from previous years according to nearly every single metric. About the only dip was in 2pt%. Just look at the pace adjusted numbers or the advanced stats. His offensive rating, 3pt%, ft%, assists, true shooting, free throw rate, efficiency, turnover % were all either the best or second best of his career (in some cases by far the best, like turnovers), despite playing against a nearly +9 strength of schedule rating, compared with -1 to -4 rating at UC-Riverside. What Pullin did last year completely and totally surpassed all expectations, including that of the staff. Now, I am hopeful Clayton himself takes that kind of a jump as a senior (though I frankly can't imagine him being more efficient and productive than he was last year), but comparing his performance last year to Pullin's is simply apples to oranges. And if we compare his performance this year to Pullin, well, it's gonna be a long season.
I can't quite tell if you're arguing with me or agreeing with me. At any rate, I don't disagree with anything you just said.
In fact, working off the ball can sometimes require expending more energy. Now, I think initiating the offense, handling ball pressure, and bailing out the offense at the end of the clock can definitely be taxing on you mentally. There isn't much "downtime" for a primary ballhandler. But that's what a guy like Clayton wants. It's why he came back to school.
Yeah, as a PG, I always want the basketball in my hands. I feel weird being directed by another player, but I've adapted to those situations when I had to. It doesn't make you tired... in fact since you are controlling the tempo it's an advantage. Nothing worse than an out of shape guy trying to play point and slowing down the whole team because he can't run up and down the floor with us.
That's one area where I am curious to see if Clayton may actually be better than Pullin. Pullin's game was always sort of half-court, post up, mid range, but much slower paced. UC-Riverside stayed in the 64-67 possession range (in the 200s nationally) his entire time there. We averaged 73 last year (top 20 nationally). Could we actually see a faster tempo than last year? More transition threes or threes off a first screen? Golden said in the Rothstein interview that he wants shots in the first 6-8 seconds of the clock. The move of Clayton to primary ballhandler may even be a doubling down on the emphasis on pace (and his belief that good offensive rebounding means the old adage is reversed: don't pass up a good shot waiting on a better shot!). Gonna be extremely interesting to watch this play out. One thing you can say for Golden: he is willing to adapt and change if the evidence seems to suggest he should.
Yep, I don't understand the worrying over Clayton Jr. playing PG. I'm perfectly fine with it until/unless he proves he can't do it. He had a bad game against UVA, but that happens from time to time. Even Steph Curry has had some head scratching meltdowns at the end of games with multiple turnovers, and he has one of the best handles and double team/trap breaking abilities in the history of the league. Walter may have one or two of these, but he is a baller. In the infamous UVA game that got everyone all riled up, Walter had 12 pts, 5 ast, and 4 reb. Hardly a terrible stat line. The bad stat was 5 turnovers, and everyone harps on it, but did you know that Riley Kugel and Tyrese Samuel also had 4 turnovers each that game? This was hardly all on Walter, and it was arguably his worst game of the season. Dude almost single handedly won us that Colorado tournament game. Put some respek on Walter Clayton Jr.'s name!
