How critical is the Miami game?

Who's gonna tell him? Lolol

 

90,000 Gator fans in The Swamp

 

Well, we know how that works...

2016: 12th
2017: 11th
2018: 14th
2019: 9th
2020: 8th
2021: 12th
2022: 18th
2023: 13th
2024: 13th

Average: 12th

W/L Record: 59-41 (.590)
Against P5 opponents: 51-44 (.537)

Average: Not 12th

It is like trying to make a large melon by taking the parts of other large melons when the pieces don't fit, or by trying to grow the melon but neglect to water the plant and rid it of bugs. We need to hope for a rainy season and adequate bug killer.

 

Do you think depth matters at all? Do you think a roster full of ranked tweeners with significant deficiencies at critical needs like defensive line and linebacker factors at all with subjective talent rankings? How many cast-offs shined elsewhere in the past 2 years? Hopper and McMillan. Hard pressed for anyone else. Why didn't they rise once they separated themselves from napiers program?

I've been plenty critical of Napier's in game decision making at times and he bears plenty of blame for the record but you seem to be unflinching in your narrative. You see no evolution huh? All things are the same?

We still have plenty of youth but at least we have players that fit defined positions for the first time in years on the defensive side of the ball which hasn't been the case since Mullen's first year where he was playing with the prior coach's roster. We flounder again this year with the same comedy of errors tackling, covering, red zone issues etc then I'm hopping on board your train but speaking as an objective fan who has generally leaned glass half empty I am optimistic about the season this year barring catastrophic injuries.

 

He's in for a rude awakening.

 

Come on. I'm sure that half sold-out, LA woke crowd was really rocking playing the mighty juggernaut Washington State, but they might not have gotten too loud, so as not to hurt anyones feelings.

 

Do you think most other teams are in the same boat as we are? Or do you think Florida was unique the past decade?

"You are what your record SAYS you are." Bill Parcells. Notice I went back much further than Napier. Evolution needs to be witnessed throughout the season.

I am CAUTIOUSLY optimistic about 2024, but there are things to remember. Other teams are more than cautiously optimistic. It can't always be that other teams with similar talent seems to develop their talent better, make sounder in-game decisions, or select the "right" 4-star and 5-star player, and for some reason, also want to win. Mario Cristobal is also on the hot seat, bringing in top talent and not achieving results. As for catastrophic injuries, fans generally don't care. Not many backed Muschamp when he figuratively had to pull kids out of the stands to play Georgia Southern.

Remember, we'll have a largely unproven roster, as many teams will, thanks to The Freaking Portal and NIL. I've been around these boards a long time, however. I think you were also around 20 years ago.

Remember the Worst Coach In All Of Organized Football Going Down To Pop Warner Level starting a team with 13 new starters two years after SOS' poor 2001 recruiting class? He also had a true freshman QB who didn't attend Spring classes. As for our Vaunted Schedule? Care to look at our top 8 opponents?

LSU:.............13-1 (won)
Miami:...........11-2 (lost)
Georgia:........11-3 (won)
FSU:..............10-2 (won on the field)
Tennessee:.....10-3 (lost
Ole Miss:........10-3 (lost)
Iowa:.............10-3 (lost)
Arkansas:.........9-4 (won)

Total:..............84-21 (.800)

Remember how much of the Gator Nation (many still on these boards) blamed EVERY loss on the head coach, including the Swindle? They all wanted him tarred, feathered, and run out on a rail, a man who went 9-4 on the field overall, and 16-8 in SEC play. Half those teams lost only three games those years. We also played eight OOC teams with 9+ wins in three years (we have to go back to 2016 to match that).

And to the Negative Nellies here, he was the WORST COACH EVER!

I fully support Napier, but Florida is and has always been a business since the days of Pell, or even Graves. There are two rules in successfully sustaining and growing a business.

Rule #1: Turn a profit (win)
Rule #2: Put out a good product (bring in talent)
Rule #3: If Rule #1 isn't in effect, Rule #2 is irrelevant

Go Billy! Please turn it around! For Florida's sake and especially for yours, you staff, your families and your players. I haven't seen anyone who wants Napier to fail, hope we lose games so he can get fired, or celebrate losses so the coach can get fired (we saw plenty of this in the Zook Era).

 

Injuries ? At UF ? Naw !

 

Don't disagree with much of that except yes, I think Grantham and mullens lazy and desperate recruiting takes were smoke and mirrors and I don't believe our "talent" despite the rankings were on par with most of the country. We had almost nothing but tweeners on defense and subpar offensive line and receiver talent as well as a trainwreck of a qb room. What did Mullen replace all of that maclwein offensive talent with? Pitts, Toney, Trask, Hammond, Swain etc. A prolific offense and players that were developed and yet how did he utilize that to recruit? I'd also be willing to blame UF money and policy much moreso if Mullen didn't have that reputation already prior to his second stint here.

Our roster talent and perception was an absolute mess built on non qualifiers, leftovers and tweeners across the board. Just mind blowing what he left us.

Also, I don't care what "fans care about" regarding muschamp having to pull fans out of the stands to play football. I think florida fans crying about Georgia Southern irrespective of all the factors involved with that loss are out of touch with reality. I don't think I've ever seen a rash of injuries across multiple positions and levels of depth like we had that year. I mean even tyler Murphy moved the offense until he got hurt. Then to play a triple option team at that point? Terrible luck. I factor that into account although by then muschamp made his bed with his repeated failures with OCs and offensive recruiting. Which also begs a major point of my opinion.....Napier is evolving. Champ didn't. Mullen did for the worse. We will see if it pays off with results but yes, I think Napier made some major mistakes. I also think he's brought in needed experience to fix some of that. I think he's had to evolve with NIL, recruiting and wholesale changes overall in college football.

Zook to me got a raw deal from the beginning but as far as roster goes yes he brought in talent but Meyer had to do a masterful job to manage the holes he left at some positions. Could Napier have done that? Nah, I doubt it but I don't think many could have.

Ftr, I enjoy this kind of discussion. Hope none of it comes of as argumentative.

 

The reality is that there was not a single player on Southern's team that was recruited by UF (although they had a couple of good players). With a competent coach, even if we had a 22 back-ups on the field, we still should have beaten them on talent alone.

He definitely did and got saddled with a couple losses due to Zebra intervention alone.

As do I. I get a lot of nuances by reading other folks opinions that I missed otherwise.

 

Yeah I hear that but college football changed by then and parity had already reared its head, see app state vs Michigan. In my opinion that was even worse because they didn't have to use a trick offense that 99% of the country doesn't run. Also, Florida was playing walk ons by that point.

I'm not saying it should have happened and I don't think it would have happened ever under spurrier, Meyer or even Mac. I can't see Zook doing it either although when UF lost to miss state they were one of the worst programs in the country and Zook thought he'd outsmart them by not attacking their nations worst passing defense because he thought they would prepare for that and instead played into their strength. I could have gotten the pass vs run mixed up but that did happen and that was the final straw. I genuinely felt awful for him watching the post-game press conference. The guy had heart and gave it his all but he looked defeated at that point.

 

Napier has been paid extremely well and has a lot to prove to be the HC at UF long term. So far, he's not very good. Mullen is no longer an excuse. I could go on.

 

Do you think we were unique in this respect?

Mullen went 34-15 at Florida. Was that all due to McElwain's prodigious recruiting? Mullen also went 69-46 (.600) at Miss State from 2009-2017. Here was their rankings from 2007 through 2017, along with their W/L records:

2007: 39th
2008: 44th
2009: 25th (5-7)
2010: 38th (9-4)
2011: 41st (7-6)
2012: 22d (8-5)
2013: 24th (7-6)
2014: 36th (10-3)
2015: 18th (9-4)
2016: 28th (6-7)
2017: 24th (8-4)

From 2001-2009, Miss State was 29-65 (.308)
From 2009-2017, Miss State went 69-46 (.600)
From 2018-2023, Miss State went 39-36 (.520)

All with talent statistically worse than Florida? Was Mullen a superior talent evaluator back then, only to lose it later? And please don't blame it all on Grantham. He is well-respected both at the collegiate and professional level.

Amazing how we were the only school to suffer these things.

Well, we ARE on the premier message board of Florida football. Don't you think GC may be an accurate reflection of the Gator Nation's attitude at large? There are so many great posters. Many, like Skink, GatorDoc and others always want to see the glass as half full with the hope that the water spigot is just overhead. Others like Crusher, Taipan, Diegator (a great guy; I've met him in Buckhead at a Gator club), and perhaps myself, have seen all the reality after the sunshine disappeared behind the clouds.

We'll see. It will all come in the W/L record.

Meyer could have gone to Notre Dame, but chose Florida because "At Florida, I can win NOW." In 2006, 22 of 24 starters were Zook's recruits. But you're right, Meyer's work was extraordinary.

You and me both, my friend. Many decry the so-called "Negative Nellies," but if a message board isn't for honest discussion, then it becomes nothing but a cheerleader site. Sis Boom Bah!! Everything is rosy in Gatorland! For many of the past dozen years, we had:

* Bubbling optimism
* Uneven performance
* Frustration that we couldn't duplicate 1983-5, 1990-2001 and 2005-2009
* Fingerpointing the blame at coordinators and assistant coaches
* Occasionally throwing players under the bus (most of us hate that)

and finally

* Blaming the head coach, demanding their firing. Some head coaches are never blamed, while others like Zook was damned before he even arrived. Remember fireronzook.com?

This is how we've had seven coaches since 2000. Rinse and repeat, and hope that the next one is a Nick Saban clone...

 

Actually, I think the MSU loss was nothing more than the trigger. The final straw was in Utah at the time, with former Utah President Bernie Machen in Gainesville, which explained why Zook was enticed to finish out the season. What if Charlie Strong was to run the table? Would he have been passed over? I think we are seeing parallels in other aspects today.

 

Mullen went 34 and 15 with front loaded success in very large part with all of maclweins/muschamps roster which was thinning greatly due to a lack of replenishment following attrition. Mullen was a great on field coach and I thought he would be a great overall CEO having worked with and being a part of the urban championship years. He talked the talk and then didn't walk the walk. I'm thankful for what he did with our offenses. Mullen almost immediately made our offense competent again following several years of offenses ranked in the 90s and 100s. It was a breath of fresh air. His initial portal success with Jefferson, Grimes as well as Greenard and Shuler shored up areas of need but even that ended. Who were our impact additions from the portal after mullens first year or two? I think we had a uniquely mangled roster amongst major programs with no true position players at multiple positions across the board.

Napier has the potential to be so much better than Mullen in the transfer portal now as well. Napier was too slow and his transfers were not impactful enough especially on defense years one and Two. Year 3 has so much more potential. Again, a reverse trend than what Mullen accomplished here.

If Mullen's record was reversed he wouldn't receive any of the criticism he receives. Instead, the program was officially his by year 3 and 4 and his record was trending the wrong direction. By the same token, Napier now owns this roster and coaching staff especially with the new portal rules so yes, the excuses run out this year regardless of strength of schedule. I've been pretty vocal that I don't see schedule strength as an excuse. Tennessee lost their starting QB, aTm has a new coach, LSU lost their Heisman QB, UCF and Miami aren't juggernauts and are home games and we should have beaten fsu 2 years ago and they lost their entire offense this year.

Handle business with a veteran QB and a 3rd year coach in those games. Texas, Georgia and Ole miss are likely losses. I don't see anything less than 7 wins as acceptable personally.

Basically, my optimism (and it is just optomism right now) is that year 3 results will improve on the field with all of the perceived improvements he has made in recruiting, transfer portal and coaching staff. I had the opposite feeling with Mullen by the end of year 3 and especially going into year 4 with Jones and Grantham as his two biggest horses.

If the inverse performance comparison continues then we SHOULD see results on the field. I'll be very concerned if we do not. We will see soon.

 

Zook's problem other than terrible luck is that he wasn't Steve Spurrier. Can you imagine Spurrier not calling out the Zebra's at the UT game or the Swindle? The Zebra's would not have been so bold knowing that they would be under the media microscope.

I don't know that I consider the Flexbone a "trick" offense. Its a variation of the triple option offense that has been around since Emory Bellard invented the wishbone at Texas back in the 1960's. Ga Southern has been running it since the mid '80's when Paul Johnson was OC. We called it the Hambone after Alachua County's own Tracy Ham, who was the QB.

 

The triple option, requires discipline to defend. There's a reason some lesser programs ran that offense historically and why many of us football fans are aware of Paul johnson running it over the years along with air force in the past. Better success running that offense against far superior athletes than manning up and trying to traditional pass/run block against better programs in my opinion. Harder to defend once you throw walk ons in emergency need situations.

 

Yeah, that was a fun game. UGa was undefeated and this loss probably prevented them from winning a NC. I had no expectations going in, so beating those fools was sweet.