War in Ukraine

It's called free trade. It's why we support Liberal Western Democracies when they are invaded by Authoritarian states for conquest.

"Getting something in return" sounds like you just want to enjoy the spoils of war like we're living in some pre-WWII construct. Like you just want us to conquer, not Russia.

This isn't nuance. This is the point.

 

we are getting rid of weapons we would have had to pay to retire, we are getting enormous amounts of battlefield testing of our weapons systems, we are getting tons of intel on russian weapons systems, we are driving up our worldwide market share for weapons as russian weapons prove to be no match, we are weakening our enemy, we are helping to preserve the minerals and food that comes from Ukraine for the western market independent of Russian control, and we are showing China that the world will not accept military aggression. This has also convinced NATO to step up their game. To portend that we are getting nothing is overlooking a lot of stuff.

 

Cowboys and Injuns!

 

Exactly why the U.S. should roll over, and hand all strategic objectives accomplished since the end of WW2 to Putin.
This is the logic of MAGA. Destroy NATO, destroy USA foreign policy objectives of the last 70 years, piss on the graves
of Americans shot down and killed all over the world to defend Democracy against Communists, Totalitarians and the just plain Evil.

Not to mention the TRILLIONs spent in military and foreign policy infrastructure in place since WW2.

Hey, look at the bright side, with a Trump victory, you may be able to go to Moscow, N Korea, Syria, Western Europe and anywhere else
to "Gamble" at a Trump casino, all for the meager price of $2,500.00 a night and a McDonalds happy meal for breakfast.

 

And miss out on American street life ?

 

but think of the price those russian oligarchs will pay for the penthouses in Trump Riyadh and Trump Oman. it will make those empty conference rooms and empty hotel rooms at Trump DC look like chump change.

 

conquering? No idea what you are talking about. Free trade??? Umm. Free trade would be selling weapons ahead of time to Ukraine and not sending them cash and weapons for free afterward. If you and others think it’s a terrible idea to want something in return for gifting Ukraine hundreds of millions in weapons and cash you are free to think or feel however you wish. I am Of the opinion that it would be smart policy.

 

The U.S. has sent almost NO CASH. Why are you having trouble understanding that, after being told a hundred times?

 

The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.
Ronald Reagan

US has provided money, not just equipment, to Ukraine

CLAIM: The U.S. is not providing cash to Ukraine; it only supports the country through donated military equipment.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. While the U.S. is indeed providing weapons and equipment to Ukraine, it has also provided billions in financial assistance to the country following Russia’s invasion.

 

We initially sent a fair amount of cash, because, guess what? It takes cash to operate a war, especially when you can't export food to raise money, and your power plants are bombed routinely, and your soldiers want to get paid. After Congressmen started wetting their pants over Russian propaganda that Zelenskyy was pocketing most of the cash (which, like most Russian propaganda, was not true), we backed out of supplying cash and left that to Europe. Now we almost exclusively supply weapons systems and ammunition, plus a small amount of humanitarian aid (do you begrudge them access to medical supplies?). And guess what, bright boy? The weapons systems mostly cost nothing, because most of them were sitting in warehouses, retired. The ammunition is sent from our stockpiles, and the money is spent on replenishing those stockpiles, helping the U.S. economies of about 70 cities right here in the U.S. But I imagine that you don't want to support the economy of any cities in the U.S., do you? Not unless Trump tells you that its a good idea.

How Much U.S. Aid Is Going to Ukraine?.

How Ukraine Is Tapping the U.S. Arsenal
U.S. security assistance between January 20, 2020, and April 26, 2024

Infantry arms and equipment

Air defense

10,000 Javelin anti-armor systems

1 Patriot air defense battery and munitions

90,000 other anti-armor systems and munitions

12 NASAM systems

2,000 Stinger anti-aircraft systems

Avenger air defense systems

9,000 TOW missiles

HAWK air defense systems and munitions

40,000 grenade launchers and small arms

Laser-guided rocket systems

400 million rounds of small arms ammunition and grenades

AIM-7 missiles

RIM-7 missiles

100,000 sets of body armor and helmets

AIM-9M missiles

Antiaircraft guns and ammunition

Night-vision devices, surveillance systems, thermal imagery systems, optics, and laser rangefinders

Equipment to integrate with and sustain Ukraine’s systems and to protect critical infrastructure

C-4 and other explosives

VAMPIRE anti-drone systems and munitions

Explosive-ordnance-disposal equipment

Anti-drone gun trucks and ammunition

M18A1 Claymore mines

Anti-drone laser-guided rocket systems

Anti-armor mines

Air defense systems components

Mine-clearing equipment

Other anti-drone equipment

Obstacle-emplacement equipment

Medical supplies

Air-to-ground missiles

Field equipment, cold-weather gear, generators, and spare parts

High-speed anti-radiation missiles (HARMs)

 

I was a big fan of Reagan. He was a big reason that I became a republican (and still am, even if I don't vote for every criminal or rapist republican that shows up on the ballot). If you were a big fan of Reagan, you would know that he ran one of the most successful proxy wars ever against Russia and helped defeat and destroy Russia and its economy. Maybe you should support Reagan's ideas to de-fang the Russians, or the "Evil Empire" as he called them. Maybe you like Reagan just enough to quote him, but not enough to support his ideas for defeating the Evil Empire. Maybe, deep down, you really like evil and want Russia to win. Or maybe you just like propaganda and fall for it a little too easily. Some people are gullible that way.

 

Interesting. I wonder how quickly we can replenish what was sent over? It’s almost like China and Russia devised a plan for Russia to invade Ukraine to weaken the west of military resources. If the shit doesn’t get better, we’ll be drafting Gen Z to fight China over the Taiwan invasion with military resources we can’t replenish quick enough. Or, maybe Russia is just fricken inept and I am just misinformed and paranoid.

 

Short answer to the question is, the munitions we are providing to Ukraine to fight Russia are not the munitions we will need to fight a Chinese invasion of Taiwan. China knows this, so it is not likely a strategy of theirs to get us to burn through stockpiles of munitions that would be of little or no use against them.

 

It's actually worse than that, believe it or not. These MAGA geniuses are dooming the U.S. to spend trillions more on national defense after they help Russia win this war. All of their penny pinching on this war will cost us a fortune, and might be what collapses the U.S. economy at some point. Incredibly stupid thinking process. It's almost as if you have to hit yourself in the head with a brick to join MAGA. The economic boon that happened in the 1990's with Russia neutered will not happen again. High inflation from Covid will look like nothing compared to what Trump and his idiot followers are set to deliver to us, and that inflation will not be temporary like Covid was. Trump is the best president an enemy of the U.S. could ever hope for, and Trump's followers continue to lap up every lie he tells.

 

When you’ve lost Julian …

 

Russia threw handed Trump the 2016 election with $400 of Facebook ads. Now they’re crippling the Biden administration with a directed energy beam …

 

A massive fire on board a Russian warship in April was set by a Russian who sympathized with Ukraine.

A massive fire on a Russian warship was set by a saboteur fighting against his own country, Ukraine says

 

While Patriot missile systems have been getting most of the press coverage about their ability to shoot down anything and everything in the sky, another (and older) missile system has been doing positive things for Ukraine in the war: the Hawk missile system, from the 1960's. Yes, Russian technology is that bad.

Ukraine is killing Russian missiles with hand-me-down air-defense weapons the US retired decades ago

 

This seems to be the mentality of many Americans. “penny wise and pound foolish”.

Reminds of a recent discussion I had over the issues many long term Miami high rise condo owners are soon to be facing. 6 figure assessments to properly inspect and maintain buildings for safe occupancy (all a reactionary result of that deadly condo collapse). I wonder how many of these condo owners (similar to the one that actually collapsed) angrily refused year after year to raise their dues, as necessary, to do the proper engineering and maintenance work all along the way? If they had done the ongoing work or maybe smaller assessments years ago, maybe the huge assessment isn’t needed down the road (let alone the risk of your building literally crumbling beneath you).

Obviously the inclination to want to pay less money for things is natural, but it’s also very much what Republican governance has appealed too since at least Reagan, but it started getting much crazier I’d say starting with the Grover Norquist pledge. Almost a religious like devotion to not paying for things. If we want to pretend that’s fiscal conservatism, just look to the school voucher thread to see how quickly “fiscal conservatism” flips and fades away when they think they are GETTING money from the government. It’s sad in a way, it’s like some crazed Uber entitlement Americans seem to have now.