Louisiana Becomes First State To Require Ten Commandments In Public School Classrooms

Firm but fair. I’m still not sure I’d consider you “socially conservative” though, especially given the type of people I’d apply that moniker.

 

The 10 commandments don’t prescribe punishments. The 10 commandments simply tell you what is right or wrong.

I am like you in that I don’t think homosexuals should be criminally punished. I place homosexuality in the same category as pre-marital sex. I believe both violate the commandment to not commit adultery, which reserves sex for marriage. Outside of the 10 commandments in the Torah we read that those who have pre-marital sex are to be married. We also read that a man who sleeps with a man was to be put to death. That is how we know Moses rejected homosexuality as being outside of God’s design. I do not believe the civil system of punishments carry forward and apply to people outside of the nation of Israel. That civil system existed at that time for that nation. Nevertheless, the commandment not to commit adultery when understood in the context of the rest of the Torah is telling us that sex is only reserved within the confines of marriage; which is between a man and a woman. I would tell someone engaged in pre-marital sex who says they are a Christian to repent and be made right with God. If someone fell into that sin, but they repented then they can be forgiven made right with God. The question is have you repented of that sin? I would take the same line with homosexuality. If you have fallen into sin, then you may be forgiven. But there is no forgiveness apart from repentance. You have to repent. And repentance is a gospel issue; which is why a Christian cannot simply let it go. No gospel = no forgiveness. No repentance = no forgiveness. It means the sin must be acknowledged. It must be acknowledged as shameful. It must be confessed. It must be mourned. It must be hated. And then one must ultimately depart from it.

If you think about a marriage where there has been infidelity, it would be difficult for a marriage relationship to continue if all of those steps did not take place.

It is the same thing with God. Often times sin is compared to sexual impurity in the Bible. For a relationship with God to happen you can’t cheat on God continuously without shame or guilt. If you really love God, then you don’t want to be unfaithful to him. So, this is one of those things where a Christian cannot budge. All sin is infidelity against God, and people lose their souls forever if they buy the lie that they are married to Christ but not faithful to him.

I do think we have common ground in the fact that murder and theft should be criminalized. I think the disagreement probably lies in whether murder deserves the death penalty. And I get to that opinion not because the book of Exodus prescribes that punishment. The death penalty for murder predates the giving of the law at Mount Sinai. It actually goes back to the book of Genesis, where God instructed Noah and his sons to carry out the death penalty on murderers.

 

Yeah, the whole not coveting your neighbor's slaves is definitely teaching the right lesson.

 

Deleted my last post. Thought we were talking infidelity not pre-marital sex - in case you saw/were replying.

 

Pre-marital sex is arguably the most ridiculous of the made-up sins.

 

So, in a state of stupor I waded through this thread. My take:
Group A believes in a supreme being who, according to oral & written tradition laid out some life rules. Group A believes those rules apply to everyone, in varying degrees of societal sanction.
Group B are people of varying belief systems who believe that Group A does not have the right to dictate to the entire society.
Classic argument of monolithic vs pluralistic societies. Which do we want to be?

 

Group A gets to choose the supreme being, right?

 

I see now why you like Phil the “conservative.”

 

Phil and Tilly are both mos def conservatives. They have their own differences.

I disagree with them at about a 98% clip.

What they are not is tyrannical assholes.

Makes all the difference.

 

I did not see your response, but I would like to refocus on one of your previous questions. I think it is a really good question, and I think there is potential to make progress towards understanding with the question. You asked:

The context of your question seemed to suggest that if there are no legal penalties for something in the 10 commandments, then we must be admitting the equivalent of the 10 commandments being irrelevant.

I would like to challenge that understanding. The scripture says:

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.”
-Galatians 3:10​

Paul quotes Moses in Deuteronomy 27:26 showing that Moses taught those who disobey the commandments bring a curse upon themselves. One way the 10 commandments are relevant to everyone, Christian or non-Christian, is the one who breaks the commandments brings a curse upon himself. Set the debate over civil penalties and punishments aside. Being cursed is a serious serious matter. It is a much bigger deal than being punished by the government. So, these laws matter tremendously irrespective of what the government does.

The dilemma is everyone sins, so how do we escape being cursed? Well, the operative word is rely. All who rely on works of the law are under a curse. Rely for what? Paul is talking about salvation. What would you say to God when you stand before the judgment? Would you argue you deserve to go to heaven because of your works? What is your confidence based on when you reason that you are a good person? If the answer to either of those questions is your works, then you are under a curse. That is what God is saying through the apostle Paul. Every religion except one says that what separates the righteous from the unrighteous is their works. Other religions might use different vocabulary to communicate this point, but that is the gist of non-Christian religion. All other religions outside Christianity rely on works of the law. So, God, speaking through the apostle Paul, places all adherents of all religions except one in this boat of being cursed because if one relies on works of the law then he must live a life of perfect obedience or else he is cursed. Jesus taught this same exact doctrine as well:

He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.” -Luke 18:9-14
​

To be justified is to be found righteous in the eyes of God. Another purpose of the law is to bring a man to this state we find the tax collector in. It is to break him of his pride, silence his boasting, and bring him to a deep state of sorrow over his sin so he can cry out to God for forgiveness. Jesus considered this man, who could not even lift his face to heaven because he was so ashamed of his sin, to be a humble man. This is the goal of the law: to humble a man before God so he knows what a truly pathetic, hopeless, and desperately evil creature he actually is. Only then will he desperately plead for forgiveness at Jesus' feet on the basis of grace alone.

The apostle Paul reinforces this point:

So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. -Galatians 3:24
​

When a man is humbled to the point where he cannot even look up to heaven because he is so ashamed of his sin, he is now capable of receiving Christ as his savior. The law teaches him that he has no other hope than Christ for redemption. It weans him off of the self-righteousness of trusting in his own works for salvation, and he is able to see the glorious of work of Christ on the cross for what it truly is:

For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. -2 Corinthians 5:21​

Once a man knows Christ as his savior his relationship to the law changes:

For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another. -Galatians 5:13-15
​

So, Christians still obey the law, but they obey the law not to rely on the law for salvation, but to love God and their neighbor.

This is the path that every Christian travels, and it is a path fiercely resisted by prideful men. The gospel, which means "good news," is in some ways humiliating. It debases a man as a morally bankrupt creature before his Creator, but it also sweeps a man from this lowly pathetic place and treats him as if he is royalty. He gets a seat at the King's table. But it also comes at a cost. He is not the King. Jesus is the King. When we come to know Christ we must acknowledge Him as King and Lord to sit at the King's table.

You may not think this, but this is the primary issue. People do not want to acknowledge Jesus as King. That requires obedience, which in our warped sinful minds can seem hard and costly. The idea that a King could exact such a steep cost to follow him is offensive to many. However, Jesus said:

The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and covered up. Then in his joy he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.
-Matthew 13:44
​

Even Jesus acknowledged that there is a treasure to obtain that will cost you everything. The treasure is Christ himself. There are some who might find the treasure in the field, but they don't consider the treasure in the field to be treasure at all because they treasure their sin, which blinds them to the true treasure that is Christ. This is the fundamental spiritual issue that swirls underneath these discussions. The curse of sin runs deep in our hearts and minds. It poisons the affections. It poisons what we find beautiful, honorable, and commendable. If one treasures sin so that they are blind to the immeasurable worth of the true treasure of Christ, then the curse of sin has exacted a far greater punishment on their soul than any civil punishment ever could have.

 

I think they can be displayed publicly but not in Government buildings. Public schools are Gov buildings thus whey should not be on display in public schools.

 

Yeah, but all that is horseshit.

But a giant sign that says that it’s all horseshit in a school would be beyond the pale, and I myself would object.

See?

 

Second Amendment, people. There is to be no designated national religion, and no restriction on how people choose to worship.
One person's religion is not another's and so forth. No matter how strenuously you argue about it.
The ten commandments do not belong posted in a taxpayer funded or government entity. Period.
Placed in your church, your car, your home, your wallet -- have at it.
Sheesh.

 

Spot on.

This woman has it right for me - different context, but it's the same mentality.
People have freedom of religious choice and that's fine. But in the same way, people have the right to live a life free of it too.

 

If you are talking about the ancestors of the Louisiana legislature, it was an important lesson. You were supposed to confine your covetous sexual urges to rape your own slaves. Very important moral distinction in that culture.

 

What is really pathetic about the theocratics supporting this law is that they support a super-heathen for president.

 

I hear that a lot from people who keep right on voting for them, so obviously those people do support them. That group's unwillingness to openly admit their support, yet implicitly gives it, fits the mold perfectly.

 

I am visiting Apopka, FL for work. Our company has a design center here. On the side of the road between my hotel and the company facility is a huge roadside tent called "The Trump Store". There are images of Trump descending from "on high" with the Sword of Righteousness, as well as an image of his face on the statue "Jesus Christ the Redeemer" that famously towers over Rio de Janeiro. These people are flipping insane and have deified that scumbag, mental midget.

I left Florida a long time ago, so I have no idea when the state collectively became this stupid. Further, if Florida has become this stupid, I can only imagine the type of total slack-jawed troglodytes running Louisiana right now.

 

There are people who's entire personality is politics. It's got to be the most insane way to go thru life. I know one of them through my wife's family and he ins insufferable, as every conversation must have a dusting of politics in it. No matter what the topic.

 

Less about faith and all about power.