Arizona's Dismantling of Public Education

And the problem with dismantling public education ?

 

Oh no! Parents spent their hard earned money to get their kids out of a broken district?!?!

The horror!

By the way Gator Jo? Are you really a new poster? Over 1000 posts since the end of Feb. More than 10/day?

Cmon man. Level up. Who are you?

 

"Empowerment Scholarship Account" - sounds great! But . . .

Arizona’s 'universal' education savings account program has become a handout to the wealthy | Brookings

Advocates argue that ESAs allow parents to customize their children’s education and create opportunities for families who otherwise might be unable to afford private schooling or other educational expenses. Critics contend that ESA programs lack protections for students and taxpayers. They also contend that ESAs have little track record of success and siphon off funds that would be better spent on public schools. While ESA programs remain young and confined to certain states, they are beginning to account for a sizable share of school funding in some places.

I thought the cons were against gov handouts.

The list of allowable expenses for Arizona’s ESA program is long. It includes everything from tuition and fees to backpacks, printers, and bookshelves. Overall, about 63% of state funds are being spent on tuition, textbooks, and fees at a qualifying school, with “curricula and supplementary materials” (12%) being the next largest expense.

Researchers, state officials, and advocacy groups have raised concerns about the program’s expansion. Some have pointed to wasteful spending from the lightly regulated program, while others have emphasized exploding costs and their potential impacts on public schools. An early report indicated that a disproportionate share of program beneficiaries appeared to be affluent.

In other words, regardless of the SES measure used (poverty rate, median income, or educational attainment), we see similar patterns in who is obtaining ESA funding. More advantaged communities are securing a highly disproportionate share of these scholarships.

 

Hard to claim this when it's a big gov handout (not "hard earned money") that goes disproportionately to the most wealthy.

 

We agree. I have long believed that vouchers should be income based just like any social program. But lets be honest...some folks on the left are more worried about the religious component than they are an honest debate on education.

Vouchers are a good idea, but they shouldn't make the rich, richer.

 

I wouldn't call Paradise Valley School District broken. PV has the highest real estate value in Phoenix metro, and some of the most valuable in the state.

The ESAs are helping upper middle class parents send their kids to expensive private schools. It's hurting the middle class and lower middle class who even with the ESA, can't afford the uber expensive private schools.

And a big problem is there is little oversight with the ESAs. Schools can buy things like Legos as educational tools, but there have been instances of schools buying things like $1,500 Star Wars sets. That's a little excessive.

It all goes to the last election. D. Kathy Hoffman was up for reelection, and she was very good. But I think COVID backlash got her, and R. Tom Horne won the last election. Horne looks like a turtle, and is dumber than your average amphibian. And under his watch, things have gone from bad to much worse.

 

Why do these idiots prefer sending their kids to a clearly inferior form of education?

 

I disagree. Public education is about the only chance many have as a way out of poverty. We should be increasing spending on public education not decreasing. This is extremely destructive toward a key tenet of our society.

 

No, I think most people are concerned that by the continual chipping away at Public schools, eventually public schools will actually fail, and then only the rich will be educated.

Which really is the Pubs plan.

First, the pubs fought to reduce funding to public schools for decades and then complain they aren't getting the job done.

Then they take even more money from Public schools, and give it to those who can already can afford private schools.

 

I strongly believe that religious education belongs in the home and place of worship. It does not belong in schools whether public or private. We should not have Madrassahs in pluralistic America.

Private schools, ironically mostly Christian, originally arose for the most part after schools were integrated. Rather than white "Christians" supporting the public school system and working to make them work after integration, they created what are effectively Madrassahs.

Now they have the chutzpah to ask for tax dollars to help support them.

 

Vouchers are better in theory than in practice.

 

Providence day school in North Carolina is an example of this. It was started in response to forced integration. It amuses me now that they give scholarships to black athletes so they can compete. People who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

 

My best guess is that they are poorly informed. Have been told too often about failing schools. We've got posters on board suggesting that America's public schools are a failure, but that's a myth.

 

Truman?

 

That’s one possibility. Another is that they have compared the output and have determined that private schools and charter schools facilitate a better learning environment than traditional public schools. There is probably not just one reason for that, but I would say the correct answer for getting more interest in traditional public schools is to do more of what they’re doing right, not to restrict people so that they have no choice but public schools. Speaking for self, I want public schools to succeed, and I don’t object to or look down on anyone who prefers public schools for their kids. But when it comes to mine, the investment in a private school is worth it. My daughter is simply getting a better education and suffers less from the distraction of disruptive kids who don’t want to be there.

 

Not a big fan of vouchers, but I’d generally be ok with vouchers if :

- the voucher only included amounts for regular students (and not the amount that supports special needs students)
- To have a full voucher a school should have same programs, processes and protections for special needs as public schools, and a similar percentage profile
- Students from families below something around a median family income should be admitted free, with no additional cost over the voucher (your sliding scale may accomplish something similar)
- The school cannot give preference to those who are able to pay more.

 

This is all fine and good from the private school perspective (where socioeconomics play a primary role). Private and charter schools (especially) do not, however, always offer a better learning environ. Nevermind "traditional" public school. That's rare, as schools are increasingly modernizing curriculum. I, like many, don't want public dollars going to kids to attend private schools and that's the thrust of this topic.

 

I am with you in the sense that it should be means tested and not a tax break for the wealthy. For families of less means, I absolutely support vouchers. Those public dollars are the taxes they personally pay, and if they prefer that some of it go to a private school of their choice rather than a public school they aren’t using, then I support that. The rules I support would involve that their voucher is never as much as what the proportion of their taxes would go to public schooling (my rule of thumb would be 80% max), and that they must be out-of-pocket at the school of their choice for no less than 20%. I’m all about making it possible for less privileged families to have more choice in schooling, but I also don’t want to completely alleviate anyone of some support for public schools and some level of personal sacrifice to put their children in private schools.