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How China's Military Views the United States

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by chemgator, Jun 18, 2020.

  1. AndyGator

    AndyGator GC Hall of Fame

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    (Taiwan developed the drone, not China)
     
  2. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Time is running out to have a war with China …

     
  3. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    The naming of the island as a "Republic of China" was done back in the days when both countries thought they had a decent chance of taking over the other one. Taiwan gave that idea up decades ago. China has been a little slow to realize the obvious: that Taiwan has been functioning for over 75 years as an independent country, and for over 120 years with no oversight from China.
     
  4. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    This is a potential source of US-China dispute. This is a designed provocation

     
  5. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    I certainly don’t like everything about China, but in many respects it makes the US look third world

     
  6. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    And over land that’s 800 miles from China and with the Filipino exclusion zone, and already arbitrated at a world level.

     
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  7. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Some people in Asia are calling it an act of war.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/20/...uth-china-sea-clash-china-intl-hnk/index.html

     
  8. NavyGator93

    NavyGator93 GC Hall of Fame

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    China has tried to claim the Spratly Islands since forever, they have built up some of the islands that used to only exist at low tide and put military installations on them.

    I've spent hundreds of hours on Freedom of Navigation flights over and around the islands, it is hairy to say the least.
     
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  9. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

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    Beijing was under Liao, then Jurchen, then Mongol control for like 400 years successively. I don't think 75 years makes a difference to the Chinese.

    But it's a city nobody wants to live in, according to chemgator :eek:
     
  10. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    More
     
  11. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    They’re going to get us all killed

     
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  12. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    One person is quoted as wanting to live in Chongqing as opposed to the coast, and you think EVERYONE must want to live there? China invested a ton of money in an effort to move millions of their people from the coast to Chongqing, and it failed. They have a massive water supply behind the Three Gorges Dam, and a huge potential for manufacturing there, but people just do not want to move there.

    Here is an interesting video on the financial disaster unfolding in China.



    The Chinese real estate market is not normal and in no way can be related to western real estate markets. Some facts:

    Real estate is the only thing that the average Chinese person can invest in. China's manipulations of the stock market and corporations have made the stock market there entirely unreliable and prone to collapse. About 30% of China's wealth is in real estate.

    There is no intention to live in the apartments that are purchased in these ghost cities. They are purely a place to park money. The value of the apartments tend to go up, since it is viewed as a good investment (and there are no other good alternatives for investing). People keep making money from their job, and they have to invest in somewhere, so even useless real estate is a good investment right now. If their economy ever contracts significantly, like after they start a war with Taiwan, their real estate market will likely collapse completely, and drag the rest of their economy down with it.

    Most apartments are unfinished. They CAN'T be finished, because finishing them LOWERS the value of the apartment, believe it or not. Chinese superstition holds that buying a completed apartment means accepting all of the bad luck and misfortune of the previous owner, so the apartment needs to be stripped down and re-constructed before it can be occupied. Many, if not most, purchased apartments in ghost cities are lacking plumbing, interior walls, cabinets and flooring.

    The real estate companies building these apartments are highly leveraged and finance everything with debt. China's gov't, in an effort to curb the excessive construction, made new rules to decide which real estate companies can be issued loans. None of the real estate companies currently qualifies under the new rules. Basically, that means that ALL real estate companies will be going bankrupt--it's just a matter of when.

    My interpretation? Basically, China is building Moai's (Easter Island statues) in the middle of nowhere to store their wealth. They provide no value, as no one will be living in them in the near (and possibly distant) future. It is an investment based on the illusion that it will someday be physically worth something. In the meantime, the investment will deteriorate and crumble, with no money to maintain the buildings and the town itself. Maybe one or two ghost cities might actually attract a company like FoxConn to create demand for apartments for living in, but most will become derelict, and all of the money to build them will have been wasted. When the physical value goes to zero, then the emotional value of the investment will also go to zero, as no one will be willing to buy an apartment that can never be lived in.
     
  13. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    It should. They risk getting their asses kicked if they invade Taiwan. And they also risk further alienating their wealthiest customers.

    But on a historical basis, China ceded control of Taiwan to Japan in 1895, and Japan yielded control of Taiwan after WWII. Communist China did not make a successful bid to take control of Taiwan at that time, and Chang-Kai Shek's forces moved in and took control. The international community recognized Taiwan's right to exist and govern itself, and China has done nothing until now to reverse that decision. If China wanted to keep Taiwan, they should not have given it up to Japan. The current policy is nothing short of empire building a century after empires were dismantled.
     
  14. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    You should clutch your pearls more tightly, grandma.
     
  15. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

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    Serpentza has an axe to grind with China, he's the one who posted that misinformation video about abandoned BYD EVs. I don't really blame the guy though, I've watched many of his videos since many years back. He lived for many years in China and told the truth in his videos, both good and bad, and got attacked viciously online by Chinese ultra-nationalists for daring to say anything bad about China and was driven out of the country by their harassment. It's unfortunately that he completely lost his objectivity afterwards, only posting the bad things. It's kinda sad to see how bitter he's become from his experience.

    With that said, I'll address your points. Your points have nothing to do with whether Chongqing is a good city, but they do raise some good points. I agree with the vast majority of your points, from the reason why real estate was overinvested in China (i.e. the Chinese have nowhere else to park their money with good returns), how so many can keep get sold despite a lack of need (i.e. nobody actually lives in a lot of them), how with the recent crackdown most real estate companies won't survive.

    So basically, I agree with you on just about all the facts. What I don't agree with you on is the interpretation. You say the real estate market will collapse, that's not true. It's already collapsed. Real estate and related industries made up 25% of China's GDP just a few years ago, now it's a little over 10%. It'll continue to collapse, soon it'll make up a miniscule proportion of China's GDP. IMO the Chinese government's intention is clear, they want to make housing into an infrastructure, an utility, and not a commodity. I don't think Xi could've made it any clearer when he said "houses are for living, not for speculation".

    What's taken its place in the Chinese economy is the new energy and related industries, EVs, solar, wind, batteries, etc. They're now making up ~25% of China's GDP and still expanding rapidly. The issue IMO with a lot of Westerners' take on China is that they're always outdated. China is a rapidly developing country, and every few years it's a whole new country. Many Western analysts even now are still talking about how China should rescue its real estate industry, how the recent $40 billion initiative isn't enough, etc. China's past that now, real estate is old news. They'll support it just enough to avoid a recession, but they'll tolerate its collapse so long as it remains merely a drag on growth. In 5 years it'll have no effect on the Chinese economy, and they're already moving on to the next project.

    China ceded control of Taiwan to Japan in 1895 due to the successful Japanese invasion of Taiwan, so by that logic China just needs to successfully invade Taiwan now to regain control, no? To be honest, I don't really care about historical claims, everywhere belonged to someone else at some point of time. China wants Taiwan for the access to the SCS and the Pacific, the historical stuff drummed up by either side is just excuse for or against China's action.
     
  16. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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  17. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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  18. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    I can think of two or three reasons I wouldn’t want to move to China, but I have American friends who moved there and love it. From the article …

    “China stands out as the only country to have ever surpassed to US in development.”

    A Month Traveling in China | Dissident Voice
     
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  19. citygator

    citygator VIP Member

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    Say you’ve never been to China without saying you’ve never been to China. Only one of us has lived over there and I assure you… no one here would switch places. Hong Kong is nice though.
     
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