California Fast Food Restaurants have cut 10,000 jobs since $20 Minimum Wage

I could envision a scenario in which labor has a firm hand in the labor market (like very high union density, low unemployment) where you could dispense with a minimum wage and other government corrections, but I dont think that's what our resident libertarian economist has in mind.

 

Hey look Doc, Mrs Bates agrees with you

 

There are countless examples of pure capitalism leading to harmful outcomes (just like any economic system). This has been exhibited through relaxation of regulations leading to worse outcomes or regulations stepping in to prohibit harmful predatory behavior. I think if anything history has shown capitalism works best, and is likely the optimal economic system, when it operates within guardrails. That isn’t a cry for unbridled regulation but there’s a happy median.

In this case I don’t believe requiring a minimum wage is a negative. Companies can work to make their labor inputs cheaper through efficiency, reduce costs in other areas, raise prices, take less profit, etc.

Are you really going to argue it’s more efficient for our government to step in with public assistance rather than require businesses to plan to pay their workers living wages? The former just puts the burdens on society when it should be duty of an employer to offer sustainable positions.

 

So in other words, the rent increase had nothing to do with the operating costs or property improvements of the building, it was simply to squeeze more money out of renters. That's absolutely the prerogative of the complex owner, but it's predatory behavior and hardly a reason to not give workers a raise.

 

Well, the same people that argue minimum wages are counterproductive argue that government assistance is counterproductive. I'm not sure they see it in that framework haha.

 

Sure, you have '2 close friends in the industry', one who 'runs a duplex' and one who is a 'property manager for an apartment complex'. I believe you. How is your son who just tried to kill himself doing? Is he out of the coma yet?

 

Weird …all my friends who work at apartment complexes flat out tell me something different….

See, we both can make shit up….

 

We didn’t need that quote to know FDR was a closet socialist.

 

I own a duplex and we haven’t raised the rent in 4 years. Granted we own it free and clear and would rather take a less every month and keep good tenants who take care of the place. Having high rents is fine but then you deal with people always moving, empty units and the gamble getting unknowns renting your property.

It may not be the best ROI but we will take it.

We do have the “luxury “ of owning it free and clear. So our overhead is less.

 

I have never advocated for "pure capitalism". At least you didn't use the old, I don't care about poor people trope. I bet you are vehemently opposed to 99% of price fixing & I bet you support the fact that it is a federal crime for private citizens to engage in it.

It is not that I am opposed to regulation. I am for better reg. What's the problem? If it is collusion I am for the GOVERNMENT to aggressively address it. Not let it persist (cuz it sure has hell hurts poor people in MANY ways other than wages). Hence, if the arg is bidness is colluding against "labor" & you only address that via min wage (which helps very few people - 1.3% as of 2022 made min wage), you are allowing their collusive ways to harm a lot of people & probably harming the poorest disproportionately.

"Are you really going to argue it’s more efficient for our government to step in with public assistance rather than require businesses to plan to pay their workers living wages?"

(these numbers are from various years)

What % of min wage workers need an increase to have a living wage? 80% of min wage workers are not living in poverty & many would be fine & dandy with no job. But, the min wage inefficiently applies to 100% of min wage earners. Hey rich kids, here's more money! That is 1 big reason, I think direct gov asst makes more sense. the other 2 biggies are 2. the distortion effect which over decades I think has been devastating to the very poor people we say we care about. 3. I don't think the government should force private citizens to care for other private citizens. &, good god, if you are, the employers - the folks that put upward pressure on wages & provide jobs - should not be the ones picked on. What about the lawyers, pols, docs, real estate moguls, college profs & all the others that do very little to directly provide jobs???? Employers do FAR more than anyone in helping the poor & we should ask them to pay a non mkt wage?? Why ask those who are already helping the poor to carry even more of the burden???? Finally, I think if you think about it, you'll agree raising the min wage DOES put a burden on society (millions of Californians just had their real wage cut). that should be considered when debating direct gov asst vs. price fixing.

 

I have a rental property too and have never raised the rent for the same reasons… my only reason for getting involved in this thread was to point out how dumb it is to claim that union workers getting paid well are the force behind rising rent prices. Might as well blame woke Hollywood and Drag Queens while he’s at it … lol…

 

I am surprised fast food places like KFC and McDonalds are still legal in Commiefornia. I am sure they are on Gavin "I don't have to stay home" Newsoms radar.

 

How about we come up with a list of industries that aren't legal in a place like Florida and compare it to California?

 

pretty sure the Commie State of Fla has already BANNED lab grown meat. BANNED!!

 

The people who lost their jobs are making zero dollars per hour. Zero is the true minimum wage imposed by Democrats

 

Are you ok? I feel like you're just kind of mailing it in at this point.

 

“My side” is paying someone enough to exist beyond the simple bare necessities. I have twice quoted what constitutes “living wages”, and who they should apply to (and I’m certain there are a litany of sources online with definitions for you) but you simply ignore it because you want to pay people less than a humane wage.

one point I agree with is that this shouldn’t apply to just fast food. I don’t know the reason but it’s probably stated in the bill. I could guess they targeted one of the largest industries with low-paid workers without as significant of a lobby as to avoid the pushback. This would have the effect of raising wages for similar skill set employees in other industries.