Taxpayers pay 'over and over' to rebuild risky, flood-prone homes in Florida | Analysis

Definitely need to look at limits.

21 flood claims is multiples too many. I could see climate change issues causing repeat floods after decades of never flooding before, so people will think to all those years it didn’t flood. But even if it’s a “new” problem reality needs to be faced. After a certain cap, they just need to pay to relocate and abandon that property (or perhaps at least it get raised on pilings) or else “insurance” doesn’t work. Obviously the cap needs to be single digits, but really more like 2-3 instances within a span (say a decade). Insurance is supposed to be mitigate against risk, not against a sure thing.

 

This book covers the issue nationally. Important read. Totally wasteful. The worst is Dauphin Island in Mobile Bay



GAUL: Well, yeah. The place I studied was smaller, but it still illustrates the risk. I have been following a place called Dauphin Island, which is off the coast of Alabama in Mobile. It's a 14.5-mile-long barrier island shaped like a drumstick. The eastern end of it is a fairly lush maritime forest and reasonably wide. And then the western end of it, facing the Mississippi Sound and the Gulf of Mexico, has no elevation, and yet that's where all the big houses are, and they're all second homes. They're all beach houses. I asked the mayor, well, why did they build there? You know, that's the riskiest possible place. And he said, well, they like the view.

The place has been hit by over a dozen hurricanes in the last few decades, including several major hurricanes. After I went there initially in 1998, after a small Category 2 hurricane that wiped out 30 or so of the older houses - literally pitched them across the narrow end of the barrier island like bowling balls into the houses along the Mississippi Sound - the owners then elevated their houses 15 feet in the air. They built new houses up on these stilts and were safe. They were safe until they weren't.

So what happened was in 2005, Hurricane Katrina rolls along. We all know it's a big, massive, violent storm. It pushed 19 feet of storm surge over the western end of Dauphin Island. Nineteen feet swept away those houses off of the stilts. I think 400 of the 450 homes there were wrecked. I managed to get on the island a few days after the hurricane, and I was staggered by what I saw. All you see are these empty stilts bent in the sand where the houses used to be sitting up in the air like birdhouses. It just shows you that elevation only gets you so far.

DAVIES: And they rebuilt again?

GAUL: Of course. Yes. For this book, I spoke with the Realtors and went and visited again and spoke with the mayor again. And yes, it's all rebuilt. And now the construction line for the - original construction line for the houses is a hundred yards offshore, underwater in the Gulf of Mexico (laughter). The houses are just sitting there at the edge. There's no elevation, no sand dunes, nothing. They're just sitting there at the edge of the water and, in some cases, in the water.

DAVIES: So up on stilts.

 

I don't think it's accurate to say it's paid for by taxes ... as far as I know, the money comes from FEMA's flood insurance program, which is funded by owners in flood risk areas, right?

The other thing -- and I'm sure someone knows more about this than me and can elaborate or correct me if I'm wrong here -- but I think houses labeled as "repeat loss" homes by FEMA lose any subsidies or fixed rates and get charge the "market rate" for extremely high risk property.

 

I am far from an expert but it does also involve tax dollars through emergency relief, which goes into rebuilding supporting infrastructure that would be unnecessary if residents did not keep rebuilding after repeatedly getting destroyed by storms and related weather phenomena. Also the Army Corps of Engineers does beach renourishment. So there are a LOT of tax dollars going into subsidizing the lifestyle.

And you are correct that the federal government recently enacted reforms or tried to. I thought it was proposed but did not pass due to regional politics and the influence of the wealthy, but not sure.

The book I linked to above only listed Florida 4th after Dauphin Island (the worst), NC Barrier Islands and a Long Island Community (forgot name) as communities that had a lot of high end housing that has been rebuilt again and again, and will be in the future absent reform, with tax dollars or other subsidies, because they are literally in a location where that is certain to happen every few years, but people still want to live there, and have that lifestyle subsidized.

 

I agree with you, that after a certain point, FEMA just needs to says certain areas (barrier islands, for example) are uninsurable through FEMA, find a private market or self-insure.

I also live near Tampa, and we've been extremely luck for decades, I think it was 1950s when Tampa/Pinellas last took a direct hit from a major hurricane ... the neighborhoods built on the barrier islands on the west side of Pinellas, like the north end of clearwater beach for example, is packed with ground level houses built "pre-firm" which are going to be an astronomical loss when they eventually get a Cat 4 or 5 ... I'm sure they are all getting subsidies now since that area has avoided floods fairly well and vastly underpaying for their level of risk.

But they way FEMA works ... the people who are at a 1% risk for flood damage pay the same people are nearly guaranteed (100% likelihood) damage from flooding ... until the house gets labeled as repeat loss, anyway. I think the maps are drawn to try balance them so lots of homes at very low risk (inland, non-water front lots) keep paying into the system to fund the million dollar gulf front homes at high risk. Kinda a shitty system in that way.

 

100%.

 

Interesting piece on Shore Acres in St. Pete in this morning’s Times. The neighborhood is destined to keep flooding with increasing regularity. Tons of flooding and claims after Idalia. Many residents are selling, more than ever, though values still rising. That cannot continue, as they don’t even cover how insurers will respond.

Some residents are pretty sympathetic, long time family property and spending personal money to raise the house. Still, they expect continued public expenditures to try to save a way of life that just cannot be maintained. Matter of time. I sympathize, but eventually tough unpopular decisions will have to be made, or they will just be forced upon us by nature.

Of the more than 1,700 St. Petersburg homes that reported damage during Idalia, about 80% were in Shore Acres, according to Claude Tankersley, the public works administrator for the city. In total, nearly 1,000 flood insurance claims were made to the Federal Emergency Management Agency from St. Petersburg. More than three-quarters of them were from homeowners in census tracts belonging to Shore Acres and nearby Snell Isle.


Indeed, there has been a sharp uptick in homes listed for sale in Shore Acres, according to data from Zillow. Since the start of 2024, the number of new listings added each month has reached new heights. It’s impossible to say what is prompting the change, and the neighborhood’s average home value is still rising despite recent disasters.


In April, the city began upgrading valves, called backflow preventers, that block bay water from pushing through underground pipes. By the end of August, the city plans to have replaced all 56 of the neighborhood’s aging valves — part of a $3.7 million fast-tracked project, according to Tankersley.

As of May, nine had been installed, Tankersley said. There are other projects planned, including widening pipes and adding storm water pump stations to streets in Shore Acres.“If (the city) does things to protect the neighborhood back, that’d be amazing,” Nash said. “We’d love to stay back here.”



St. Petersburg’s Shore Acres grapples with future after floods
St. Petersburg’s Shore Acres grapples with future after floods - Tampa Bay Times

 

Flood ins is limited to 250k not rebuilding a million dollar home for 250k. Plus flood rates are crazy now.
I got a quote 2 years ago, i’m not even in a flood zone but it was 7k a year 3x my homeowners for 1/3 the coverage.

Some homes are flooded not as a result of be built near the coast but as a result for terrible planning. Ian flooded about 100 homes 5 miles from the coast not near any rivers of water in my area. All due to the city shutting down pump stations.

Over a dozen homes on the coast near me from Ian and Nicole were destroyed. Not one is being covered by insurance, flood only gives 250k max and much of that is being sucked up rebuilding sea walls where 100 ft of more of 20ft tall dunes were washed away.

 

I've said it before on these boards, but I wonder how many MAGAs are using the "socialist" flood insurance? I had read articles on repetitive and severe repetitive loss properties. Boggles my mind that is a thing.

 

@G8trGr8t you explained the process I need to take to get my flood insurance requirement lifted a while back and I screenshotted it but can't seem to find it. My house didn't come close to flooding despite the historical rainfall with the hurricanes a few years back despite severe flooding in my area.

What was the first step in the process? If you in don't mind. Thanks.

 

That price doesn't sound right. A policy for a property not in a flood zone should be around $600 a year ...

 

Once politicians are involved in any program it's almost impossible to say "No" or make a reduction. When Newt Gingrich and Pubs controlled the House Bill Clinton went along w/ welfare reform and Voila! people got off welfare. That is rare; and, good for both of them and us. Because this is "guaranteed" like student loans there isn't a market mechanism and it definitely is not insurance. Add it to the list of things the Fed Gov't gets involved in and causes additional problems.

 

Getting a licensed surveyor to confirm that the ground around your house is above the 100 year fema elevation. Find a local surveyor and ask them if they do lomr applications

Letter of Map Amendment & Letter of Map Revision-Based on Fill Process

 

That’s what I said to my agent, she told me rates were a total disaster. This was Dec of 2021. A year before it was about $500.

I haven’t called since to see if the rates changed.

 

Sticky question.
Mortgage companies require flood if in a flood zone. They do redraw maps so if you buy a house not in a zone and then it’s changed you’re stuck due to the feds changing zones.
If you own it free and clear then you don’t need to have it and many don’t because of the costs.

I know quite a few people who have skipped on windstorm damage due to the cost. A rental I own we have done that with 16 years later and saved over 50k. We lose part of the roof we can re-shingle for about 5-6k. (doing it ourselves).

 

Thank you again.

 

Your house plans should show the FFE finish floor elevation and your survey from closing should show the bfe base flood elevation. You need to check fema to see if bfe has changed. If house is 6" above outside grade and ffe is more than 6" above bfe, then you should be comfortable getting the survey done to confirm

 

you can get a map revision to have your house removed from flood zone if the ground outside your house is above the flood plain. You don't have to wait on the gubmnt to do map revisions

 

At least the Romans were smart enough to bury Rome in 15-20' of dirt every time the river flooded. Last time I visited, there was an excavation of Julius Caesar's Senate building, and I was surprised at how far below grade it was. Maybe Florida will get smart one of these days, and require retaining walls and more dirt before people rebuild. It would probably require our Julius Caesar wannabe/clown to stop his wars with Disney and do some actual governing.