Netanyahu tells Israel ‘We are at war’ after Hamas launches an unprecedented attack, killing at leas

I think it is perfectly “fair” to ask someone who is critical of Israel’s strategy, for their thoughts on what would work to achieve the goals that need to be achieved. Still haven’t heard a viable alternative.

Just think of this — as we prattle about in this message board, offering our collective thoughts and opinions, THE HOSTAGES STILL HAVE NOT BEEN RELEASED. I’ll wait for the posters to justify that…

 

Some would say that this amount of wanton civilian death is unacceptable, but we have to remember that Israel has an amazing plan for a lasting peace and stable governance in Gaza, following attacks such as this.

They just haven't mentioned a word about it yet.


CAIRO/JERUSALEM (Reuters) -An Israeli airstrike triggered a fire that killed 45 people in a tent camp in the Gazan city of Rafah, officials said on Monday,...

Israeli attack on Rafah tent camp kills 45, prompts international outcry

 

So Israel's strategy, which has resulted in the death of 10s of thousands of women and children, isn't really working?

Would it also be fair to ask that Israel put forth an effective strategy to achieve their goals?

 

I’m having trouble reconciling your views on Israel — where you seem to suggest Israel should just turn tail and head home because they can never win and all their doing is creating more war, even though the War started when Hamas invaded on October 7 — with strong arguments (which I generally agree with) on the War in Ukraine thread where you advocate for substantial Ukrainian aid to continue fighting a War which very likely cannot be won.

What makes your pro-Ukraine argument different from your anti-Israel-in-Gaza stance?

I want to emphasize that I’m not calling you out, making any insinuation, or pointing fingers. I’m simply curious of the distinctions between the two wars.

 

Ukraine is fighting against a nation with a defined military that can be effectively fought against without a huge amount of Ukraine-caused civilian collateral damage?

Ukraine will be capable of functioning as a nation afterwards - a viable peace can exist?

The war in Ukraine will not result in simply a constant and increased amount of future fighting due to the creation of massive terrorist sentiment and sympathy?

Ukraine is legitimately fighting for it's survival, while the "war" you claim Hamas started was really just an act of vile terrorism that does not in fact threaten the existence of Israel as a nation?


Were you being serious with that question?

 

I was very serious when I asked the question. Your response is telling about your knowledge of the conflict.

 

That reply earned a solid score for snark. Much less so for facts or as a rebuttal.

I think I made clear numerous differences between the two conflicts. By appearances you have nothing to contribute to indicate otherwise.


If my previous response needs to be simplified further;

A loss in the Ukraine war would result in the cessation of Ukraine to exist as a nation.

A loss in the "war" on Gaza would result in.......more or less conditions similar to what Israel has existed in for approximately 80 years.*


* Note : According to the Jewish Virtual Library, Israel has suffered 4,688 civilian casualties due to terrorism since 1948. Or roughly 60 per year, including 2023. Or roughly 15% of the civilian total Israel has killed since their invasion of Gaza alone (!!) .

Number of Terrorism Fatalities in Israel


Certainly some clear differences in the two conflicts are now apparent?

 

ok, first I have never suggested Israel turn tail. In fact, now that they have invaded Gaza they have little choice but to stay imo.

what I’ve criticized, and for good reason, is how they’ve conducted the war. Once they allowed themselves to get hit, a military response was inevitable, but not the timing or the brutality. Consider that since they invaded they’ve rescued 3 hostages, the rest were returned via prisoner exchange. Israel could have brought home more hostages through negotiation, while preparing for a more well-thought out military intervention - instead it’s been scorched earth and little long term planning. The last flailing spasms of a shitty leader and a failed admin.

There is literally no comparison to Ukraine at all it’s not worth addressing.

 

When you start your argument with “with the ‘war’ you claim Hamas started,” you told me everything I needed to know.

 

I disagree with your analysis, but it’s circular for me to restate the same. That said, I have no issue whatsoever with fact that we disagree. It’s a horrible situation, no matter where your politics lie.

 

this has nothing to do with politics. I think their strategy is shit. I hope they kill every single effing terrorist but I think they could have been smarter about it.

 

I am not going to stand on a hill screaming the praise of Netanyahu. But once October 7 happened, the overwhelming majority of Israeli approve of the War and want to see it to its completion (and remember that Israel has forced compulsion for military service). Once the War is over, hopefully his negligence will cause him to be replaced and his politic career forever ended.

I think that neither you nor I know the actual battlefield strategy, and the Rafah campaign is going much more deliberate than originally contemplated by the media.

 

Forgive me for not sharing your blind optimism. Listen, after 9/11 the us overwhelmingly supported the war. Doesn’t mean we had the right long term strategy. The desire for revenge and careful planning are not the same.

further public sentiment for war doesn’t make it more or less right in how it is carried out. Russian support for the Ukraine war remains high. It doesn’t make russua right or their strategy sound.

 

Oooops, we killed another 100 civilians with a single bomb strike. Sorr-eee. We’re going to launch an investigation. Sure, these investigations never turn up anything, but gosh darn it, we killed two Hamas today with that attack! We’ll never actually eradicate Hamas from Gaza, but it sure does make for a great cover story for our ethnic cleansing. Thank you for the weaps #POTUS.

 

They just massacred a bunch of civilians over the weekend and also had rockets fired at Israel for the first time in weeks, its really going great for them

 

You have to understand; there is simply NOTHING that they could have done differently (besides kill 35,000+ civilians, mostly women nd children and displace nearly 2 million). There was simply no other course of action, because Hamas threatens the very existence of the nation of Israel.

Since its inception as a nation located in the most historically violent part of the entire world, where there has been a history of war, violence and terrorism for nearly 3,000 years........, Israel has lost approximately 60 civilians per year to terrorism, totaling appx 4,700. This alone shows why killing 35,000 civilians within the span of about 6 months is such a necessary, acceptable and optimal course of action.

 

I love that you just puppet whatever BS numbers Hamas puts out there. It's like you are their lackey. Good job Sport!

 

I love that you chime in on things you know nothing about, Sport. Such as where these numbers come from.

Now go take a lap, Skippy.

Then get your shinebox.

Number of Terrorism Fatalities in Israel

 

Well, thank goodness for the investigation, which showed that, gasp, Hamas lied to the World. As you will see below, the strike hit an ammunition depot (which caused the multiple explosions), not an apartment complex.

See the full thread:

 

Much more enjoyable when we are on the same page.