Netanyahu tells Israel ‘We are at war’ after Hamas launches an unprecedented attack, killing at leas

I don’t propose se killing a single innocent person. But Israel’s strategy is sound. Contrary to incredibly biased reporting, Israel is doing what it can to mitigate loss of civilian life. And I think Israel is forced to militarily occupy Gaza as a temporary condition. Israel does not want to permanently occupy Gaza, it has made that point clear. Frankly, Israel just wants to be left in peace.

Hamas leadership is hiding in the 60-80% of the remaining tunnels, and Israelis certainly hunting them. Other leaders are entrenched in foreign countries, like Qatar, where Israeli ability to strike is hampered by law.

Also, just so we don’t lose focus, where’s the American and Israeli hostages?

 

While a 2-state solution is out of the question as a short term possibility it still has potential over the long term. I do agree that Netanyahu and his far right cabinet would never accept a 2-state solution and that their ultimate goal is an Israel extending from "river to the sea". Keep in mind the reason why Israelis who may have supported a 2-state solution prior to October 7 are now extremely reluctant to accept that alternative. Keep in mind that after Israel withdrew from the territory in 2005 Gaza effectively became an independent Palestinian state. Hamas ended up taking over Gaza in 2007 as the result of an inconclusive election and civil war which by the way was the last time residents of Gaza had any say in their government. Rather than building a viable state Hamas focused on attacking Israel launching rockets into Israel and later constructing tunnels under the border for the purpose of infiltrating terrorists into Israel. As Thomas Friedman has suggested in multiple NY Times columns the first step towards a permanent solution would be the replacement of Hamas in Gaza with a revamped Palestinian Authority amenable to negotiations. Unfortunately it's not going to happen anytime soon.

 

Its wild to me that anyone could believe that the Israelis attacking any vehicle at this point in the conflict is an 'accident' or 'mistake.' Like Hamas is just riding around openly in vehicles in daylight after 7 months of conflict. If they were it kind of says something about the futility of their campaign in general. Any vehicle out there now is basically there to provide aid of some kind to the Palestinians, so to the Israelis, its a target.

 

I agree with mush of what you write here. I don’t think Netanyahu would, or even presently could, accept a 2 state solution to resolve this War - not without the elimination of the Hamas regime. I do think most Israelis are amenable to a 2 state solution (after the end of the War), provided Israel’s sovereignty and right to exist is agreed upon and recognized. And Netanyahu is not universally loved in Israel- he is loathed by many. But he is the War-Time leader. Once there is no war, I believe he will more than likely be replaced.

 

They should be prosecuted.

 

How do we even know the hostages are alive? How many people have to die for 120 hostages? That is a hollow excuse to continue blowing up everything in sight.
And wtf does a temporary occupation do? NOTHING. As soon as they leave it will all start again - just look at Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.
It's so infuriating how short-sighted we are about the middle east. Violence has never solved anything. It just perpetuates the cycle.

As Israel Pushes Deeper into Rafah, Hamas Regroups Elsewhere in Ungoverned Gaza - further, I just want to point out again that Hamas was prepared for this from Israel. They were expecting it. Israel has stepped right into their trap. Hamas has already regrouped and is fighting Israel again in Northern Gaza. This will go on and on and on.

From the article - The military “is now going into Jabaliya for the second time and into Zeitoun for the third time, and it will continue to go in and out,” columnist Ben Caspit wrote in Israel's Maariv daily, channeling the growing frustration felt by many Israelis more than seven months into the war.

This is not the solution - it is a mistake - and ultimately it is Israel, alienating the rest of the world, just like Hamas wanted them to, who will pay the price - Israel and the Palestinian civilians.

 

what the 2nd article left out and CNN clearly accidentally put into their first article
I linked below is Jabalya was left as a safe area and refugee camp yet Hamas decided to regroup in a refugee camp. I wonder why they chose to regroup in and around a refugee camp? Why is nobody putting pressure on Iran to stop Hamas from hiding within civilians? Hamas thanks you and CNN for their strategic support

Intense shelling and gunfire have continued in much of the Jabalya refugee camp in northern Gaza after Israeli forces began a ground operation there on Saturday


People try to escape Jabalya in northern Gaza as Israel battles Hamas

Gazans flee as Israeli forces go back into Jabalia - BBC News

 

I would go so far as to suggest that Netanyahu is intentionally extending the war because he will almost certainly be voted out of office when Israel holds elections. Let's not forget that one of the reasons that Israelis who may not have been in complete agreement with Netanyahu was the perception that his government would provide security. That went completely out of the door after October 7. Not only did Netanyahu's government fail to prevent the terrorist attack by ignoring intelligence his decision to deploy IDF troops to the West Bank to protect settlers rather than near the border with Gaza resulted in a significantly delayed response after the terrorist attack began probably resulting the preventable deaths of hundreds of Israeli civilians.

 

They were able to put up with his corruption for the security he promised, but now they have his corruption without security. Next election he is gone. Unless he wipes out Hamas. But that will take wiping out most of the population of Gaza. So here we are. People are dying in Gaza so Netanyahu can hold onto power a little longer.

 

Hamas is intentionally setting up in civilians - no question that isn't debatable. They are doing it on purpose. The more civilians die, the more the world turns on Israel.
This is part of their strategy - and Israel is walking right into it.

 

how many civilian deaths would you consider ok? For the death of every Hamas fighter ?

 

What you posted isn't at all correct. Israel has been supportive of a 2 state solution as long as it isn't Hamas. Skeptical of a two state solution is different from saying never wanting one like Hamas and the Palestinians want. They want Israel wiped off the map even before they attacked them on Oct 7th.

 

I'm referring to a comparison between the civilians Hamas killed in their vile 2023 terrorist attack and the number of civilians Israel has killed in it's commitment of war crimes as a response.

My numbers are approximations, but in line with general concensus.

To answer your question as simply as possible; it is not acceptable to kill civilians in the amount of approximately 25x, and starve appx or over 1000x, the number of victims of a terrorist attack.

My red line is....lower than that.

This is war crimes.

 

People who continually look at this through a strictly binary good/evil lens don’t understand the region or recent history. A lot of things can be true at once.
Hamas can be evil. And Hamas’s rise could have been in part based on the oppression that came from Israel, especially BiBi. The right wing approach to the Palestinians there has made things worse, not better, Oct 7 was the ultimate manifestation of that. The Oct 7 attacks were still unconscionable, but the response from Israel has been short sighted. The response worldwide to Israel’s attacks has been over the top given the war they are forced to fight. The rest of the Arab world are complicit, they use the Palestinians as a stage prop when it suits their interest but don’t treat them much better than the Israelis do. And Gazans choosing Hamas as their leaders made things much worse, not better.
But most importantly, long term nothing changes until both sides get tired of fighting a limitless and pointless every day battle. Of course we are several thousand years in and it hasn’t stopped yet, so I’m not holding my breath.

 

So your belief is that if Hamas kills
1200 then IDF kills 1200 then it’s even steven and everyone go back to watching World Cup ?

Give me gatorjo’s number ? If the IDF was killing 5 civilians for each Hamas, that would be acceptable ? Or 10 civilians for each ? Maybe 8. You have to have a number or otherwise how do you gauge ?

 

They weren't 'forced' to fight at all, that was their choice. As people like to say here, they get attacked all the time. They have periodically responded with military action and "mowing the grass" but nothing on this scale for this length of time, with no clear objective. The Israelis were complacent because they thought they figured out a cheat code to the Palestinian question. They assumed all their elaborate technology, Iron Dome and fencing had their outdoor prison contained, and could deal with the occasional rocket attack without fanfare and were making inroads to normalizing relations with Arab states that were anti-Iranian in outlook. Their illusions were shattered by 10/7, but they set the trap for themselves. Now they really have no strategy other than to lash out like a wounded animal, as their containment strategy is now a political liability, and the only solution that is acceptable to the current Israeli government is the mass destruction and displacement of the entire Palestinian population. Somehow as Americans, we signed up for this murder/suicide pact. We dont have to be party to it at all.

 

LOL. Cool semantics and attempt at a tangent.

Israel is slaughtering civilians in a counterproductive response to a terrorist attack. Soon they'll be starving them. It's war crimes.

 

yes. Israel attempted to let the money flow into Gaza and hoped those riches would ‘buy the peace’. Reports say Qatar put in as much as 400m a year with Iran adding another 250m. None of those tunnels are for civilian safety or transportation to and from work. I wholeheartedly agree that strategy didn’t work

 

War crimes? Pro tip: Maybe stop going to these college Anti-Semitic rallies. Just because someone shouts "war crimes" doesn't make it true.

 

It’s a math question not semantics at all. The UN says the the historical standard for urban conflict is 80-90%. That means 80-90% of all deaths in urban combat are civilian. From the numbers I’m seeing the civilian death % is much lower for this Gaza conflict and that’s with Hamas killing its own people for your support. What’s your number ? If you don’t have a number how can you make an intellectual argument ? Oh wait. You aren’t. Yours is purely an emotional. Which is fine and youre entitled to it, but nobody is going to make strategic and tactical decisions based on someone’s emotions

Ninety Per Cent of War-Time Casualties Are Civilians, Speakers Stress, Pressing Security Council to Fulfil Responsibility, Protect Innocent People in Conflicts | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases