Netanyahu tells Israel ‘We are at war’ after Hamas launches an unprecedented attack, killing at leas

I love how people on this thread are defending Israel for killing civilians like its somehow unavoidable in fighting terrorists, saying things like "how else are they going to win?"

Have we forgotten all the lessons of the last 20 years? You don't defeat terrorism like this. Committing atrocities on a civilian population is a recruitment poster for Hamas and organizations like them.

Short of leveling every building in Gaza, and killing all 2 million people, Israel is doing nothing but guaranteeing escalating attacks in the future.

I say again - you cannot defeat terrorism this way. Just ask the US. 20 years of fighting Al Qaeda and look what we have to show for it - Al Qaeda Is Back—and Thriving—in Afghanistan

So stop with this horseshit that Israel is doing what must be done. They aren't. They're just churning meat in a meat grinder with no long term vision or plan.

 

And what is your solution? What does Israel have to do militarily to make a terrorist organization, who doesn't care about the civilians of Gaza, and whose leadership is safely based in a third country that won't turn them over, stop existing? A wall?

 

Solution is to systematically eradicate Hamas on the ground while simultaneously targeting Hamas leadership in other countries. Israel will not let Hamas be in power in Gaza going forward and I don't blame them. Would be nice if the US offered their intel on where they are. Also would be nice if the US made an effort to get our hostages back from Hamas.

 

Wow, you're all over the place. And there are a whole lot of derogatory and mean words. Invective. Sorry, but that doesn't make your point any more valid, when it's clearly not.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. They need to be dealt with differently than, say a University Administration, would. Hence no protests. Sorry that it's not more interesting to you.

Terrorist organizations also need to be dealt with violently. Militarily. Killed. But generally not when, say, the military action is in response to a terrorist act and would kill an amount of civilians approximately 25x the number killed by the terrorists. And wound over 100x that amount. And potentially starve 1,000+ times that amount. With all these umbers still climbing.

To do so is to commit war crimes. It's not really that difficult.


Also, you're not correct that I personally encouraged or enabled their strategy, or whatever. But whatever you feel like saying to ease your mind for supporting war crimes is fine with me. I'm worried about you though - your quoted post was a ranting screed. Worried you're becoming unhinged.

 

Well, their main leaders are in another country hundreds of miles away, not anywhere near Gaza. And if people believe this about Hamas or Muslim organizations in general, why go around saying "Hamas could just end this by surrendering?" You dont think they are capable of it, and I'm sure many others share the sentiment. If the goal is to get Hamas to surrender, then this is a catch 22, and just means endless war. Kinda like our own war on terrorism, which has never ended and has made America a much worse place than it was before 9/11.

 

Your solution is….

 

There is a lot of space between doing nothing and engaging in high risk bombing that isnt achieving an objective and killing so many civilians that their only ally of their actions are a skeptical US and UK. I have said several times they are in a tough spot. They are a target of terrorist and state action all the time. That is why we are unwavering in support. However, this seems utterly pointless. At least Saddam Hussein was removed from office. What exactly is the end of this?

 

Their solution is to do nothing and take it. Or do some sanctions. That will really work...

Next question to those that want Israel to stop the war is what about the US hostages? Just write them off? Those people would be singing a different tune if it was a family member.

 

So give me your solution? You are on here complaining. At least come up with a solution, one that gets the hostages returned(US hostages as well) and removes Hamas. Let me know when you have that figured out.

 

There is no military action that will do what you just asked. Only a political one.

 

Of course removing Saddam destabilized the country and created the vacuum for ISIS to come into being, which certainly didnt help the objective of stopping terrorism

 

What political action could happen to get the Hamas to stop being in power and have the hostages released?

 

I would also add that removing Saddam was a gift to Iran that keeps on giving. While I was really glad to Saddam go (I failed to foresee the consequences) his removal resulting in Iran domination of the area running from the border of Iran to the Mediterranean Sea.

 

There is no solution for that. They were put in a no win situation by murderous terrorists hiding among civilians that could care less how many women and children are martyred. Israel's leadership, which let its citizens down in a dangerous world not of their making, has perhaps turned this from one failure into two which is common after terrorist attacks. We did the same with 9/11.

I like this article and suggestions I read last year. It acknowledges reality and complexity. Took me a bit to find it.

What Israel should do now

 

Oh right - so none of the smartest people on earth have come up with a solution for the middle east, and you what, expect ME to know the answer? lol.

Well, since it's a hard question, i guess the only solution is the horrific slaughter of tens of thousands of civilians, the utter destruction of civilian infrastructure that will lead to disease and famine, and oh lets not forget bombing aid workers and journalists - that always helps. J/k...

In all seriousness, there are probably MANY possible things you could do, including supporting a 2 state solution, and doing everything you can to bring in outside investment. People are a lot less likely to blow you up if they are busy making money, feeling safe, being well fed, and getting an education. But since that isn't a realistic option for many in Gaza right now, their only option is violence. GIVE THEM BETTER OPTIONS.

I mean, certainly those kind of "creative" solutions may have short-term costs but should have more long-term benefit than the endless cycle of you hit us, we hit you back - forever into infinity.

 

Well I'm sure indiscriminate bombing is going to get them back... Famine, disease, and mayhem is sure to work.

Come on, at what point do we say enough is enough. How many people have to die for a handful of hostages? Yes of course we would be singing a different tune if it was our family, but so... one american hostage is worth how many thousand Palestinians? How many hundred Israeli soldiers?

The math does not work here...

 

While Zionist wishes for the complete and total destruction of Hamas were stated goals at the start of the campaign,
think about it - Was this ever realistic? The hatred between the two camps is so deep.

Blow or knock down every building in Gaza- How does that "end" Hamas? Won't the political leadership just go on the road,
go to the West Bank, go to Syria, Egypt or Jordan? Go anywhere?

The way I saw it and continue to see it - It's a bloodbath, ideologies and religons gone wrong.
What will happen? What was predicted - Blood will be shed until it exhausts those involved and
political or economic pressure is applied so some type of "ceasefire" occurs.

I will side with israel though - A western democracy in the middle east.
Having said that, Israel needs some new and non fundamentalist form of Gov't, IMO.
Perhaps if they would consider the "Secular" route they will be better off.

How many times has Gaza been bombed out and partially destroyed in this miserable conflict?

 

You said there is a political solution. There isn't one that gets rid of Hamas and gets the hostages back. So Israel is going to do what it has to do to protect it's citizens from further attack from Hamas. Is it ideal? Not at all. But IF the rest of the world put huge pressure on the countries harboring Hamas and used their power to use economic sanctions against those countries then maybe that would help. What has the US done to get our hostages back?

 

Similar column from Tom Friedman
Opinion | Israel Has a Choice to Make: Rafah or Riyadh

I appreciate how traumatized Israelis are by the vicious Hamas murders, rapes and kidnappings of Oct. 7. It is not surprising to me that many people there just want revenge, and their hearts have hardened to a degree that they can’t see or care about all of the civilians, including thousands of children, who have been killed in Gaza as Israel has plowed through to try to eliminate Hamas. All of this has been further hardened by Hamas’s refusal so far to release the remaining hostages.

But revenge is not a strategy. It is pure insanity that Israel is now more than six months into this war and the Israeli military leadership — and virtually the entire political class — has allowed Netanyahu to continue to pursue a “total victory” there, including probably soon plunging deep into Rafah, without any exit plan or Arab partner lined up to step in once the war ends. If Israel ends up with an indefinite occupation of both Gaza and the West Bank, it would be a toxic military, economic and moral overstretch that would delight Israel’s most dangerous foe, Iran, and repel all its allies in the West and the Arab world.

All Israel is doing at this point is killing more and more civilians, turning Saudis who favored normalization with Israel against it, creating more recruits for Al Qaeda and ISIS, empowering Iran and its allies, fomenting instability and driving away much-needed foreign investment from this region. The idea of wiping out Hamas “once and for all” is a pipe dream, in the Saudi view. If Israel wants to continue to do special operations in Gaza to get the leadership, no problem. But no boots permanently on the ground. Please get to a full cease-fire and hostage release as soon as possible and focus instead on the U.S.-Saudi-Israeli-Palestinian security-normalization deal.
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Interestingly, Friedman has also criticized Biden for pausing aid to Israel suggesting it makes Netanyahu appear to be a victim.
Opinion | Biden’s Real Mistake in Pausing Military Aid to Israel

 

So your plan is for Israel to say "screw it, screw the hostages and let's let Hamas build back up and attack us again". I'm shocked Israel isn't doing that...

Again, what has the US done to get our hostages back besides saying "please give us our hostages back"? Why aren't we doing more? And it's easy to say how many have to die when the Palestinians themselves were in the streets celebrating the Oct 7th massacre like it was the 4th of July parade. Sorry if I don't feel too bad for them. Maybe don't celebrate "Pearl Harboring" Israel.