Bodycam Footage of Florida Deputy Shooting Air Force Airman Released

Back to the academy in 1977. I was taught that domestic calls were the deadliest or most likely to end up with some type of physical force needed during the incident. It was our policy (at that time, Tampa PD) that 2 officers respond for officer safety reasons. One big reason was that there usually were a minimum of 2 people involved. One officer cannot safely manage 2 people, especially angry ones.

This is still embarrassing to think about but here goes,,,

I learned an important lesson on my first domestic call as a recruit with a FTO. When we arrived there was a married couple who had been arguing. It looked like the woman had been hit due to a red mark on her face. My partner took the man outside to talk with him while I stood by the woman inside the house. I was silent as I didn’t know what to say to her. They had a screen door that I and her could see through as my partner talked with the man. My job was to make sure she stayed inside and away from her husband and my partner. I failed at that important job when she bolted for and ran out the door before I could stop her. She reacted when my partner pulled out his handcuffs for an arrest. Fortunately she wasn’t armed with a knife or other weapon as her intent was to rescue her husband. I caught up with her before she could land a blow on my partner. She was arrested also. Once they were transported and the paperwork done my partner (squad corporal) lit into me about everything I did wrong and how he and I could have been injured and how the call could have escalated to the use of a gun, possibly a death.

Angry people aren’t rational and do stupid stuff that they regret. We’ve all acted out of anger and afterwards wished we hadn’t.

There needed to be 2 officers on the airman’s call. When you have 2 you feel a lot safer knowing there’s 2 eyes and ears. Also lowers the stress level for the officers.

Add on. This past month I’ve seen news on TV about officers being shot and killed. One of them was set up intentionally. Police in other areas see this news. When we would muster before hitting the street these type incidences would be covered by our squad lieutenant or captain.

 

Well yes, I think some (if not many) people fool themselves into thinking they are in more danger and overestimate the risk to themselves and others, pretty easy to do with our media landscape. We have a lot of busybodies who like to call the cops on people rather than mind their own business. Probably why we live in a country where people have been shot for knocking on someone's door and where crime as a political issue is impervious to statistics and data. Its all about vibes.

 

It's also about facts...facts you might very well be choosing to ignore depending on where you live and what you have done and that's your business. I am not fooling myself or overestimating risks. You, however, are in absolutely no position whatsoever to even try to make that assessment.

 

My position is that most people have unhinged fantasies about people coming to murder them (from inhaling various media, fiction and news), but also accidentally leave their door unlocked overnight routinely and nothing happens to them. I would put myself in that category too. The main difference is that I've never been like "I should probably get a gun" based on my most paranoid of fantasies and fears. Now maybe if you are a person involved (directly or indirectly) in the application of violence to others and/or criminal activity, I'm sure the paranoia increases substantially because you are probably more of a target for retributive violence. For most people the greatest danger of being the victim of a crime is by someone living with you, not the faceless people outside you think are out to get you.

 

That can kill somebody. Sociopaths.

 

While I don't live in a gated community, I do live in a safe area, so I don't see a point in worrying over something that likely won't happen.

 

A stupid, really mind numbingly stupid, and offensive post.

 

Last week I was taking a first responder class and the medic teaching the class asked "If you come up on a wreck, you're by yourself, and there's a woman who had been ejected or otherwise got out of the car and is laying in the ditch. She is laying in a fire ant bed. Do you take time to get a c-collar and stabilize the c-spine or do you get her out of the ant bed?" All week we were learning about the importance of c-spine stabilization so this was a bit of a curveball. You get her out of the ant bed, doing your best to keep the head and neck stable. Some folks are allergic to ants.

It's amazing how other responders, medics and fire fighters, rarely get implicated in this type of behavior. It's always the cops. It's sadistic. How may other cops were standing around watching this lady get tore up by fire ants. Pathetic.

 

Scary. I've had a fear of ants after a bad experience climbing a tree as a kid. I immediately thought of the SNL portrayal of Perot when I saw your post.

Debate '92 - SNL Transcripts Tonight

Ross Perot: I was hoping we’d get into the issues, but if this is theway the game is played – fine. So, if somebody were to lay a finger on Kitty Dukakis, I wouldn’t kill him right away. That’d be too easy. I’d wait fora hot Texas day, see? Tie him to a stake, get an ant trail going. You know,Texas red ants, inch long! Just love to bite into human flesh, catch what I’m saying here? See, they’re eating him alive, nice and slow like. And I’d sit with him in the shade under an umbrella, maybe with a lemonade, sit back and say to the fella, “How do you like them apples?” And he’ll be screaming,”When am I gonna die?” and I’d say, “I don’t know exactly, and frankly, I resent your question.” Catch my drift?

 

Ok. You've mentioned you were a prosecutor, I imagine you've put some people in jail, and that probably makes you a little fearful that some people might want to get even. Maybe that's a reasonable fear, maybe it isnt, I dont know. I also know people on that side of the law that dont own weapons at all. I dont think what I said was inaccurate and I stand by it.

 

I've said many times, being a.police officer on the streets has got to be the most dangerous job in America. My point, and yours, is that an officer can reduce the danger with information, the proper mindset, and backup. I'm not sure the officer in the airmen case had those things. However, the airman not answering the door then appearing with a gun dramatically escalated the situation.

Homer, what would be majority of officers do in that situation, that is, confronted by an occupant holding a gun as this guy did and without backup? Do you think the failure to have backup contributed to the death?

 

One the race issue, here is the race violence version of Lia Thomas. There is an example, which will be played 24/7 on Fox now

 

That’s a tough question. I was a patrolman for less than a year before I transferred to the fire department where I became a fire/arson investigator after serving a few years in the combat division. Also worked a few years with the Hillsborough County SO as a regular reserve deputy. Regular reserve deputy’s are fully certified and work the street alone once properly trained. I’m letting you know this because my actual police time was limited and way back starting in 1977. I remained friends with many police officers, worked on task forces, and taught at the academy.

Here’s my opinion

I posted earlier it was Tampa PD policy that 2 officers respond to domestics. When I was being trained we often got called out of our district for domestic calls due to being a two officer unit. Absolutely lowers the stress level on all calls to have a 2 officer response. Statistics back in those days showed domestic calls to be the most dangerous common call.

Back then you didn’t have a police shooting on the news every week with so many of them being officers shot and killed. Many set up and ambushed. I watch ABC world news tonight and they show that type of news often. I go to a yearly retired police get together of officers from many agencies. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard the comment,,, “There’s no way I’d be a police officer today”. These guys and gals were good cops. No racist or arseholes in the group I hang with.

As to what I would have done. I respect life. It’s never been my intention to shoot anyone. My intention in that situation would have been not to shoot unless the man raised or started raising his gun towards me. I have no idea how I would have disarmed him,,, ask to drop the gun, slowly lower it to the floor, take finger off trigger, etc. Some guns have fired when dropped so that a potential problem.

Stress makes us sometimes act unlike we intended. Circumstances can change in a second. Add a weapon of any kind and you have a recipe for a bad result.

I don’t care what training you’ve been through, rules and guidelines you have, stressful, fast changing circumstance, will be addressed by instinct.

Short story. I had a buddy who was a master combat shooter in the military. When he got out he joined TPD. He got into a running gun battle with a young adult. Back then TPD issue was a S&W model 15 38 caliber 5 shot revolver. You were issued two speed loaders. That’s a total of 15 rounds. He shot all his rounds at the guy and all missed. He always shot master at the police range. Top shooter in his academy class. The difference was the stress he felt from running and being shot at.

 

I think you omitted a couple of factors that greatly change the complexion of this. The deputy knocked very loudly on the door without identifying himself and then immediately moved out of sight of the peephole. That escalated the situation first. What is the airman supposed to think if he he hears loud banging and looks through his peephole, but no one is there? Playing Tuesday afternoon QB, 3 explanations would go through my mind: 1) someone mistakenly knocked on my door, immediately realized they were at the wrong apartment, opted not to wait to apologize and left. 2) Someone, other than my GF who I was on the phone with, was pranking me. 3) Someone wanted into my apartment under highly questionable circumstances. At that point I would have a very greatly heightened concern for my safety if I were him and #3 would have dictated my course of actions. Even if I wasn't going to answer the door, I would retrieve my weapon.

 

Managing stress is incredibly difficult for many - most - people. It takes a lot of training and experience. And as you say, decisions sometimes have to be made in a split second. For that reason, I hesitate to second guess except in the most egregious circumstances.

 

I didn't include the peephole assertion as a fact because there was some dispute about it in the thread. But you're right, it would have justified his coming to the door with a pistol at his side. Similarly, it was unclear whether the officer had reason to believe it was even a domestic violence situation so as to justify his approaching on high alert with weapon drawn.

 

If you watch the entire video, you'll see the deputy at the door for a full 18 seconds prior to knocking for the first time. I assumed he was listening for sounds of an altercation, he certainly should have been, and I heard nothing but birds chirp. He also clearly moved way out of peephole line of sight immediately after knocking. The only dispute about that issue I remember was a comment from a poster suggesting such a thing was impossible to do. It was my sense that poster hadn't watched the entire available videos.

Other things that jump out. The airman was in the end apartment. After not hearing a disturbance at that door, why not go to the apartment next door, the likely source of the complaint, and try to confirm what was being relayed through the rental office?
Some additional BWC footage.

 

First time I've seen the video. I experienced all kinds of emotions, but especially anger. It's almost as if the deputy saw a black man and fired. I say that because when the door opened, he had time to order the suspect to drop his weapon. Instead, as soon as the door opened, he immediately started firing. Not a second's hesitation. There is no doubt in my mind that had the suspect been white, he would have first issued a command. The entire sequence is sickening, and I hope the deputy is fired.

 

No, but while you say the cop wasn't blameless, you began your post by not so subtly blaming the airman. Having just watched the video of the encounter, I'll assume you hadn't when you made your head-scratching post right out of the starting gate. The PO was 100% responsible for unnecessarily killing that young airman!

 

I would have expected an intelligent response, GCNumber7. Any idiot can click "come on man".