Netanyahu tells Israel ‘We are at war’ after Hamas launches an unprecedented attack, killing at leas

Don’t be obtuse. I’ve stated the conclusion - the war ends when the hostages are returned and Hamas unconditionally surrenders. How Gaza is ultimately governed, going forward, has not been answered. Israel proposed that an Arab coalition govern Gaza, but that was rejected.

 

Really well put. The only disagreement is your last sentence, where Arafat had “a deal”. Arafat was offered a Palestinian State many times, he refused many times, including the one time you reference.

 

Okay, so how does invading an area with a million civilians cause the Hamas leadership in Qatar to surrender?

 

Well, your comment intrigued me so I looked it up. I picked the same source you have previously used in a discussion with me. Arab Israelis not only have the same rights as Jewish Israelis, they have the benefit of not being compelled to serve in the military (they still an and do).

Background & Overview of Human Rights in Israel

 

You know the obvious answer, which is to prosecute the War, and that is awful. But knowing the obvious answer, what’s your alternative solution to a hive the goal? Calling Israel names doesn’t count.

 

For which? Only 34% of citizenship requests for those living in East Jerusalem are approved (and many don't apply, so the numbers receiving citizenship are very low each year). Only 5% of residents are citizens, leaving 95% as non-citizens without equal rights.

Why so few Palestinians from Jerusalem have Israeli citizenship

 

Okay, you just told me that 21% of people in Israel are Arabic (which is residents, not citizens), but they are represented by only 9 of 120 Knesset seats. Why do you think that is?

 

Maybe Hamas should've thought about that before the unprovoked attack on Oct 7th.

 

Good question and we have the answer as I’ve been quoting this for weeks. According to the UN the average civilian death percentage in urban warfare has been 80-90%. That means that civilians account for 80-90% of all deaths in urban combat. For all the ignorant outrage at the IDF for totally bogus genocide the civilian death percentage in Gaza has been at or below 70% of all deaths. That numbers is staggeringly good compared to historical statistics. What makes that number even better is we have never had urban conflict where one side Hamas actually benefits by allowing and most likely assisting in the deaths of their own civilians. So the fact that the civilian death percentage is so low compared to urban combat of the past is a huge testament to how well the IDF has actually performed. To restate the obvious. None of this information is new. Urban warfare has always been costly to civilians. What’s unique here is one side attacked unarmed civilians and then turns and runs and uses their own civilians as shields in addition to stealing any aid meant for their civilians and they do this all in a premeditated fashion because of the ignorance and naivety of so many. I’ve published these links many times but I’ll do it again

free free Palestine from Hamas

Ninety Per Cent of War-Time Casualties Are Civilians, Speakers Stress, Pressing Security Council to Fulfil Responsibility, Protect Innocent People in Conflicts | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases

Israel Has Created a New Standard for Urban Warfare. No One Will Admit It

 

Well, I don’t have the answer for the voting proclivities, I’m limited to providing you the law that you asked for.

Oddly, you seem to be off-put by the 21% population of Arabs living in the Jewish State. I can’t address your personal views - they’re your personal views — but I found a population comparison of the surrounding states, providing demographics from the date of Israel’s birth to today. (Note I have not taken the time to verify the statistics,nor do I have the time to do so).

 

I already explained it to you. 5% of East Jerusalem residents are citizens. That is because most Arabs in Israel either don't want to be Israeli citizens or they are not granted citizenship (as Israel turns down most applications from Arabs).

 

Let’s not confuse Arabs who reside in Israel freely and contribute Israeli society, with Palestinians who don’t recognize Israel.

Still, I’ll start that there is most certainly an issue for “Palestinians” who reside in East Jerusalem, to be citizens. The issue is complex. First, again, many Palestinians living in East Jerusalem don’t consider themselves to live”in Israel.” They don’t recognize Israel. They find it a stigma to even apply for Israeli citizenship.

Second, Palestinian applications for citizenship are, as I understand it, placed under higher scrutiny, and for obvious reasons - those who identify as “Palestinians” have historically refused to recognize Israel. I suspect that the applicants are further delayed or not approved, due to more human-based prejudices (not excusing it, but we all know people have their prejudices, justified or not).

 

You are confusing them if you are claiming the 21% number. The 21% includes both.

 

Yes, they are not granted rights in the same manner as those who are Jewish. That is contrary to the initial claim. Only point that I was making.

 

This is just wrong. Arab Israelis have the same right as Jewish Israelis. Palestinians, who don’t recognize Israel’s right to exist, don’t have the same rights as Israeli citizens. I’m not sure of any country that gives non-citizens — especially non-citizens who refuse to recognize their host-country’s right to exist — the same rights.

I’m betting you can’t name a place that does.

 

Again, most people of Arabic descent who do apply for citizenship are denied. Most people of Jewish descent are granted citizenship. Claiming that they have equal rights when the state won't grant those equal rights even to those who apply is just wrong. And stating that 21% of Israel is Arabic and then trying to take most of them and claim that they aren't Israeli is an internally inconsistent argument.

 

I’m sure your personal knowledge and experience with all things Israel surpasses mine. The argument has turned utterly circular at this point.

 

I don't know what your experience is. I have a number of friends in Israel. But this isn't about personal experience, it is about verifiable facts. The fact is that Israel doesn't grant citizenship to most of the 21% that you initially claimed had equal rights. As such, they don't have equal rights.

 

Your facts are not verifiable. Show me the Israeli government data (and not an Haaretz cite, which is a hyper-liberal paper that makes its living off of government attacks.

And while we are at it, which government in the Middle East do you prefer over Israel’s. Which government in the MiddleEast treats gives its citizens more rights, and allows its residents more freedoms, than Israel.

And in the issue of residents vs citizens, why does Israel’s population GROW every year in every demographic, yet in every other surrounding country, the population of Jewish people has declined to almost non-existent? If Israel is such a horror, why do people flock there?

Israel is, in my opinion, flawed like every other Western democracy. And yet it faces security issues threatening its very existence on every border more than any other country. And unlike any other country on earth, people from every corner of the world search deep, long and hard as to why Israel should no longer exist. That is tiring and troubling

 

The Haaretz cite was from data provided by the Interior Minister. Here is the quote:

None. My morality is not comparative. Also, I have not and do not think that Israel shouldn't exist. You want me to go in on the Saudis? Or the Syrians? Or the Qataris? I'm happy to do so.

The Tweet you provided was largely misleading, but I didn't feel like diving into the weeds on it. But, if you wish to do so, let's start with the first country that it listed: Morocco. The Tweet you provided suggested that it was "ethnic cleansing" that resulted in the decline in Jewish population there. That is just false. Many left to join Israel. Others left when Morocco was granted independence, as they were actually of French descent. There is no evidence of mass killing of Jewish Moroccans. In fact, the Moroccan authorities protected their Jewish population from Vichy France, which, technically was in charge of the area.

Both of those things can be true. But we shouldn't deny the flaws because they are not convenient.